VOC marked pedang

cel7 · Yesterday, 09:05 PM

Saw this VOC mark on a pamor pedang. No date or other stamps. Blade is marked on both sides near the hilt. It seems a bit odd to me. what's your opinion? The hilt looks like a replacement, is not as worn as the blade. Unfortunately I do not have more photos. The pedang is not in my possesion.

David · Yesterday, 10:09 PM

My first impression is that it looks sketchy. The blade doesn't appear old enough for one and the mark doesn't look quite right. But i think it is impossible to form any defendable opinions with the photographs you have provided. We really need to see images of the entire blade and clearer, better lit close-ups.

cel7 · Today, 07:13 AM

Thanks for your response David. Unfortunately I don't have more pictures. The blade is old, I've seen it. The blade shows much more wear than the grip. That's why I think it was replaced at some point. I have doubts about the absence of a date and the, despite the fact that it does look old, somewhat different version of the VOC stamp.

milandro · Today, 07:54 AM

it may very well be a real VOC blade but if there is something that is regularly faked is precisely the VOC designation , so be careful

Jim McDougall · Today, 01:32 PM

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...+comprehensive

I agree entirely with David, the VOC marking here seems a bit off, and we do need better and more comprehensive photos to offer more detailed opinions.
I think it is important to note that while the Dutch East Indies Company seems to have been fairly consistent in their manner of marking blades with their trademark VOC, the variation in this example does not suggest it simply being an older version.

As I have noted before in discussing this topic (attached thread) the weapons of these regions are far outside my regular fields of study. However what I have learned is that this VOC marking seems to have held a degree of talismanic value for these regional peoples, and applying it to blades would have been somewhat expected. As Alan Maisey noted in one of his entries, he had little doubt that indiginous smiths produced VOC marked blades with this in mind.

In this case, the mark seems out of character for the usual VOC version, and authentic marks typical had the kamer (six chambers of the VOC) marked above, as well as the typically seen year placed laterally on the blade.

As blades were of course commonly remounted, the disparity between the age of the blade and its dress would not be unusual.

These images of authentic VOC blades illustrate the character and configuration noted, the first with majescule 'A' (Amsterdam, the most commonly seen); the next with 'M' (Middelburg)...........the other chambers were Delft, Rotterdam, Enkhuisen, and Hoorn.

cel7 · Today, 03:02 PM

Thanks Jim, that is indeed what you would expect. The absence of a year and the letter of the city is also suspicious to me. It was offered to me but I think I will pass on this one.

Jim McDougall · Today, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cel7

Thanks Jim, that is indeed what you would expect. The absence of a year and the letter of the city is also suspicious to me. It was offered to me but I think I will pass on this one.

You bet Cel, glad I could offer some help. This piece might be of some speculative value in the sense of the traditional character of these being put together, but a good measure of optimism is needed.
It seems I've been looking for a good example of a VOC blade forever, but remains on my bucket list

Ian · Today, 03:22 PM

Hi cel7,

As others have noted, this sword was entirely made in Indonesia and unrelated to the VOC. The VOC mark is clearly spurious; for example, the "C" is horizontally not vertically oriented. There are further aspects of the mark that are incorrect, but I won't help the "forgers" by pointing out other errors. The mistake in transcription likely reflects a craftsman unfamiliar with Anglo-European alphabets. This does not necessarily mean that there was an attempt to pass the sword off as Dutch in origin or directly linked to the VOC. Sometimes these foreign inscriptions were intended as a mark of quality, or, as Jim suggests, as a talisman.

Regards,

Ian.

Yesterday, 09:05 PM	#1
cel7 Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 150	VOC marked pedang Saw this VOC mark on a pamor pedang. No date or other stamps. Blade is marked on both sides near the hilt. It seems a bit odd to me. what's your opinion? The hilt looks like a replacement, is not as worn as the blade. Unfortunately I do not have more photos. The pedang is not in my possesion. Attached Images

Today, 01:32 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,918	Previous thread VOC http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...+comprehensive I agree entirely with David, the VOC marking here seems a bit off, and we do need better and more comprehensive photos to offer more detailed opinions. I think it is important to note that while the Dutch East Indies Company seems to have been fairly consistent in their manner of marking blades with their trademark VOC, the variation in this example does not suggest it simply being an older version. As I have noted before in discussing this topic (attached thread) the weapons of these regions are far outside my regular fields of study. However what I have learned is that this VOC marking seems to have held a degree of talismanic value for these regional peoples, and applying it to blades would have been somewhat expected. As Alan Maisey noted in one of his entries, he had little doubt that indiginous smiths produced VOC marked blades with this in mind. In this case, the mark seems out of character for the usual VOC version, and authentic marks typical had the kamer (six chambers of the VOC) marked above, as well as the typically seen year placed laterally on the blade. As blades were of course commonly remounted, the disparity between the age of the blade and its dress would not be unusual. These images of authentic VOC blades illustrate the character and configuration noted, the first with majescule 'A' (Amsterdam, the most commonly seen); the next with 'M' (Middelburg)...........the other chambers were Delft, Rotterdam, Enkhuisen, and Hoorn. Attached Images

Yesterday, 10:09 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,106	My first impression is that it looks sketchy. The blade doesn't appear old enough for one and the mark doesn't look quite right. But i think it is impossible to form any defendable opinions with the photographs you have provided. We really need to see images of the entire blade and clearer, better lit close-ups.

Today, 07:13 AM	#3
cel7 Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 150	Thanks for your response David. Unfortunately I don't have more pictures. The blade is old, I've seen it. The blade shows much more wear than the grip. That's why I think it was replaced at some point. I have doubts about the absence of a date and the, despite the fact that it does look old, somewhat different version of the VOC stamp.

Today, 07:54 AM	#4
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 467	it may very well be a real VOC blade but if there is something that is regularly faked is precisely the VOC designation , so be careful

Today, 03:02 PM	#6
cel7 Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 150	Thanks Jim, that is indeed what you would expect. The absence of a year and the letter of the city is also suspicious to me. It was offered to me but I think I will pass on this one.

Today, 03:22 PM	#8
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,173	Hi cel7, As others have noted, this sword was entirely made in Indonesia and unrelated to the VOC. The VOC mark is clearly spurious; for example, the "C" is horizontally not vertically oriented. There are further aspects of the mark that are incorrect, but I won't help the "forgers" by pointing out other errors. The mistake in transcription likely reflects a craftsman unfamiliar with Anglo-European alphabets. This does not necessarily mean that there was an attempt to pass the sword off as Dutch in origin or directly linked to the VOC. Sometimes these foreign inscriptions were intended as a mark of quality, or, as Jim suggests, as a talisman. Regards, Ian.