A "new" Luzon bolo enter the collection

[Sajen]

This bolo from Luzon will enter the collection. It's 49 cm inside scabbard.
Pangasinan?

All comments are welcome!

[Sajen]

Here some new pictures.

[Sajen]

And here together with a very similar one my friend got recently, the one from him is a little bit more heavy but seemingly from the same workshop.

[Sajen]

No comments??

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by Sajen

No comments??

I vote Pangasinan on this one

[wildwolberine]

Coincidentally I just received this similar bolo - there are some differences of course but they appear to belong to the same “family”. The end of the sheath is open. The notorious “katana” of central Luzon perhaps?
TL 54cm
Blade length 41cm
Width 5cm

[Battara]

Yeah I never bought the "katana" nomenclature for this.

Would this be Pangasinan or Pampangan?

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by Battara

Yeah I never bought the "katana" nomenclature for this.

Would this be Pangasinan or Pampangan?

In my research, the original (and proper) term for the Pampanga-made "katana" blade is "tulipas." This has been mentioned in both documentation and oral tradition- of Pampanga-lineage blacksmiths.

I believe the blade in question is Pangasinan since:

1) I've never seen a Kapampangan-made blade with that engraving. In contrast, I've seen those on Pangasinan blades.

2) A feature of the "brother" blade- a spine gimping pattern- is also present in one of my younger, Pangasinan-provenanced blades. I've not seen that applied in Ilokano or Kapampangan blades.

3) I believe the blade in question is a truncated-blade form of the Pangasinan blade known as "barang." In its truncated form, it looks "similar" to tulipas, but they have differing blade profiles and alignment.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by xasterix

I vote Pangasinan on this one

Thank you Ray! Would you agree that the both shown bolos are from the 19th century? And is the handle form typical for Pangasinan?

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by wildwolberine

Coincidentally I just received this similar bolo - there are some differences of course but they appear to belong to the same “family”. The end of the sheath is open. The notorious “katana” of central Luzon perhaps?
TL 54cm
Blade length 41cm
Width 5cm

Thank you for sharing your bolo with similar blade shape but I am unsure if your bolo is also from Pangasinan because of the different handle form. Maybe Ray can give us an answer!
Can you show us a pic from the spine of your blade?

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Battara

Yeah I never bought the "katana" nomenclature for this.

Agree with you Jose. I think katana is a term only for Negrito blades with similar blade shape.

Regards,
Detlef

[JeffS]

Would this be Pangasinan or Pampangan as well? The curved spine and belly are quite different. Recently won but haven't received, photo from Ebay.

[wildwolberine]

Originally Posted by JeffS

Would this be Pangasinan or Pampangan as well? The curved spine and belly are quite different. Recently won but haven't received, photo from Ebay.

Nice one! Outbid me LOL 😂

[Battara]

Here is my piece. Thought it was Pampangan. Is it Pangansinan? Sun on the butt of the hilt - Katipunan group?

Brought back from a US service man who was in the PI back at the beginning of the 20th century.

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by JeffS

Would this be Pangasinan or Pampangan as well? The curved spine and belly are quite different. Recently won but haven't received, photo from Ebay.

I believe this is from Rizal area that's one of their prominent blade profiles.

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by Battara

Here is my piece. Thought it was Pampangan. Is it Pangansinan? Sun on the butt of the hilt - Katipunan group?

Brought back from a US service man who was in the PI back at the beginning of the 20th century.

I believe this is Kapampangan, "tulipas." The blunt blades of the Northern/Central Luzon area (Pangasinan, Ilocos Norte, Ilocos Sur, Tarlac, Pampanga, Bulacan) can be very confusing...I spent the whole pandemic figuring them out before realizing the subtle differences among the blunt bolos. Notice how, when put side by side, the Pangasinan blunt bolo (which I believe to be the angled-tip talunasan variant), edge profile curves up. But in tulipas, the edge profile goes down and stays down.

The spine profiles are also different. There's a curve in the Pangasinan talunasan's, following the edge profile's curve-up towards the tip. The tulipas just slopes down without curving back up.

The reason for these subtle differences is because they were 'cut' from different blades. Tulipas was from a Kapampangan narrow-tipped blade (whose name eludes me), while talunasan is from the Pangasinan "barang" blade.

Hope this clarifies things!

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Thank you Ray! Would you agree that the both shown bolos are from the 19th century? And is the handle form typical for Pangasinan?

Regards,
Detlef

Because the Northern Luzon / Central Luzon areas are pretty much close to each other, there may be handle similarities that can make things confusing. The scabbard can also be misleading, as traditionally those close-knit provinces supposedly source scabbards from only one area (somewhere in Ilocos). That's why I focus on the blade, engravings, and telltale carvings primarily The peen may also be helpful, but can also be misleading. Those close-knit provinces copied blade dresses from each other, but they "stayed true" to their native blade profiles.

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by wildwolberine

Coincidentally I just received this similar bolo - there are some differences of course but they appear to belong to the same “family”. The end of the sheath is open. The notorious “katana” of central Luzon perhaps?
TL 54cm
Blade length 41cm
Width 5cm

This blade is, I'm guessing, from Ilocos, the blade profile is mostly straight with minimal curves, it's an all-rounder blade which they call nowadays as "para gaw-at."

[xasterix]

Here's some pics of my WW2-era Pangasinan talunasan, round-tip variant. The spine gimping is the same as one of Detlef's samples. The blade engravings, while not 1:1 with Detlef's blades, has a similar theme.

The hilt profile also appears on Ilokano blades. The peen style also appears on Pampanga and Ilokano blades.

The hilt carving is distinctly Pangasinan, I've not encountered that on Ilokano, Kapampangan, or hilts from elsewhere in Luzon.

I absolutely adore this talunasan...this is how it looks like in action: https://bit.ly/talunasan

The round-tip variant has a similar nuance to round-tip minasbad. The thrusts are wicked.

[JeffS]

Wasn't there a discussion here on these "cut" style blade tips previously? I can't seem to find it. Curious as to why this feature is found on bolos across Luzon.

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by JeffS

Wasn't there a discussion here on these "cut" style blade tips previously? I can't seem to find it. Curious as to why this feature is found on bolos across Luzon.

There are cut-tip bolos even in Visayas island group, but the most numerous was in Luzon, where the Spanish government implemented several bando to keep the natives from having competent weapons. Each bando usually covered a city or group of cities, with specific restrictions regarding the allowed bolo length for utility purposes, and the cutting off of piercing tips. As a result, a lot of colonial-era Luzon bolos spawned "cut" versions, which, even after the Spanish era, continued to be produced side-by-side with the "uncut" versions

[Battara]

Yes and Filipinos were too good with their intak/bolos making the Spanish afraid of their lethality. So the Spanish forbade them having pointed tip (to my understanding).

Maraming salamat Ray!