Identification of rapier

[Tordenskiold1721]

Does anyone know who made this rapier, or what it is ?

[Jim McDougall]

That would be tough to guess from a simple single photo with no detail, dimensions, markings on blade, description of the rather elaborately decorated hilt (are those jewels?), it seems gilt with blue enamel etc.

I'm guessing this is not your sword so not at hand, if so, are any details offered in its listing? Have you researched anything thus far which might be of help?

Rapiers, which this obviously is, were typically hilted by artisans who often created these hilts by commission for notable persons and following local and current fashion. While structurally the hilts followed the locally favored forms the client could of course specify any additional features, or of course decoration they wanted.

Though by this virtue, many rapiers might be of a certain style but with decoration and special features, essentially 'one off'. The blades were another matter, and might have little to do with the classification of the sword as far as regionally or often even period, other than being a 'rapier' blade.

While of course you already know all this, I just wanted to add my thoughts on identification of these swords for general readers.

[Tordenskiold1721]

You are correct in pointing out that this rapier is not in my possession.

It is a rapier that I hope can be identified with ease

The hilt is decorated with gold leaf on blue with white enamel, covered with diamonds. The blade is signed De Tomas De Aiala.

[Tordenskiold1721]

The Rapier provenance and purpose:

https://www.kongernessamling.dk/en/r...ghthood-sword/

Below I attached a photo of Christian IV riding sword that he wore when entering the Danish phase of the 30 year war as Duke of Holstein for the protestant cause.
Not starting of very well lousing the battle at Lutter am Barenberg, 27 August 1626. Below his riding sword we see the Danish line break to Tilly's Catholic army:

[Jim McDougall]

This pommel form is most unusual, termed fishtail in Wallace Coll. (Mann, 1962, #634). Norman, (AVB Norman, "the Rapier and Smallsword 1400-1820", N.Y.1980) which notes it being seen on a 'few' rapiers in artwork on Dutch characters in early 17th c. (1610-1615).
Here the pommel is classified as type 41, early 17th c.(see attached).

The blade seen in the Wallace Collection example is with the name
PETTHERR WIRSBERGH, a Solingen bladesmith in early 17th c. and the sword (A634) is dated c. 1610.

The TOMAS AIALA blade, if authentic, would date late 16th-early 17th c. (c.1625) but by mid 17th his name was being spuriously used on Solingen blades. The Spanish were of course in these times holding Flanders (1556-1714) so perhaps this rapier might be regarded as 'Flemish', pending a better description by the experts here.

This seems a presentation or regalia type rapier possibly made in a commemorative sense given the ostentatious decoration, but without hands on examination it would be hard to say for sure. With provenance and being associated with a particular person where its being made might be described, who made it will be unknown. The blade would have been random acquisition from Toledo (if in fact Aiala) or Solingen.......either way, only funding punzones near ricsasso might confirm.

If this sword is of the pedigree suggested (there must be some wording with the picture) it is likely pretty high end, especially if provenance can be found.

[Tordenskiold1721]

You might have missed that the rapier was made as Christian IV’s Knighthood Sword from around 1617. The date as according to the Royal Collection at Rosenborg Castle:

https://www.kongernessamling.dk/en/r...ghthood-sword/

[Jim McDougall]

we crossed posts!
After posting I saw your addition of the detail and provenance of this sword, thank you for unveiling this information.
It is always helpful to add what you already know of the sword or weapon you are inquiring about. I once made a query to a well known museum and to a well respected author concerning a weapon said to be one thing, while other evidence said otherwise.
I was told by a dealer acquaintance NOT to add the research detail I had already gathered so as not to bias his response or assessment.

Some time later he responded, and when I responded back, I noted his version corresponded to what I had already learned.
I was severely reprimanded, with his saying if I had told him that in the first place it would have saved him weeks of research.

With this, I already had an idea for sources, so only spent an afternoon compiling data, which I actually enjoy anyway but Im just sayin'.
Rather than a blind query, add all you know so we here so inclined can move forward in accord.
I did not SEE the provenance detail as I was still working on my conclusion in which we crossed posts, and I had not reread the thread, so that was on me.

Thank you for posting this very interesting sword, and now adding the historical provenance I was suggesting. It is not surprising that a rapier style of this stature would be found at the Royal level in Denmark.

[Tordenskiold1721]

I noted his version corresponded to what I had already learned.
I was severely reprimanded, with his saying if I had told him that in the first place it would have saved him weeks of research.

Your story is not an uncommon way to confirm research on items that some times can be complex.

I usually leave out the part were the assisting expertise confirmed my own research, and give full credit to the one that helped me confirm or sent me on a better path.

It is an approach that has worked well for me, and it makes good people feel good about their good work. Lets call it being tactful

Christian IV(1588–1648) mounted on his horse with the riding sword posted further up in this post in hand:

[Jim McDougall]

That sounds fair Tordenskiold, I suppose each must follow their own protocols.
For this case, I would never have even thought of Denmark, but felt sure that either German or possibly Italian forms were at hand.

As you held the 'ace in hand' with the information that the sword belonged to Christian IV of Denmark, and asked 'what it was'? and who made it? there was no benchmark or clue to start with and as the form is far from common (as noted in Norman) I honestly had no idea where to start.

Luckily I have resources; Valentine, Norman, Boccia & Coelho; Oakeshott etc. and Wallace Collection, so it took literally going through all of these to discover the information I shared with you. As the form clearly had nothing to do with Denmark in the first place, the information you held was moot, so of no consequence.

As you say, being tactful........I do feel good about what I discovered, so thank you. It is a most interesting sword, and I learned from it.

Best regards
Jim

[Tordenskiold1721]

Italian forms were at hand.

You were resonating correctly Jim ! Christian IV(1588-1648) was possibly influenced by his Italian fencing teacher Salvator Fabris(1544-1617). Whom wrote the first fencing manual written in Denmark in honor of Christian IV. Presented in 1605 and printed in two volumes in 1606. Scroll down to 1:2 and the history of fencing master Salvator Fabris and how he ended up as Christian IV's fencing teacher is well explained:

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.redalyc.org/pdf/6639/663972473002.pdf

We do find the type of pommel that we see on Christian IV’s Knighthood rapier in Norway who was part of Denmark from the wars that lead to the breakup of the Kalmar Union 1387 - 1523.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalmar_Union

Rapier with likely provenance back to early 17th century in Norway. It is easy to imagine that the King set the style for the upper class/nobility and that they copied their sovereigns style as was common in the renaissance. This example is likely imported from Sothern Europe were identical examples can be found. We find a handful in Norway surviving up until today.

Thank you for your valuable and on target comments Jim ! I see we use the same literature

Best regards,

Arne

[Tordenskiold1721]

Salvatore Fabris(1544-1617) fencing manual:

https://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Salvator_Fabris

[Tordenskiold1721]

Adding some examples with similar pommels for military use in Norwegian museums collections:

https://digitaltmuseum.no/021027299073/karde

https://digitaltmuseum.no/011023246716/karde

https://digitaltmuseum.no/011023252922/karde

[Jim McDougall]

As they say here in Texas, 'well...there ya go!'
It has always been fascinating to see how widely Italian influences in arms and armor predominated throughout Europe, and of course fencing in particular. Honestly, as I had noted, I had never thought of these influences reaching into Northern Europe.
This is the best part of these kinds of discussion here, the learning

Thank you Arne for sharing all of this information on this sword, and as you have shown, we learn a great deal on history THROUGH the weapons themselves. We do indeed rely on the same literature!

All best regards,
Jim

[Tordenskiold1721]

Thank you Jim for your information on rapiers in this style !

You mentioned the example in the Wallace Collection. It belongs in this thread:

https://wallacelive.wallacecollectio...ype=detailView

[Tordenskiold1721]

I noticed that Christian IV portrait further up in this thread with him on his war horse with his riding sword also shows him carrying his Danish made wheellock pistols, that saw a few wars with him. Currently on display in Copenhagen. I took this photo three weeks ago:

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Tordenskiold1721

Thank you Jim for your information on rapiers in this style !

You mentioned the example in the Wallace Collection. It belongs in this thread:

https://wallacelive.wallacecollectio...ype=detailView

Wow! well done Arne.............it isnt pictured in the book.