"Early" Moro kris

[Ian]

Thanks again to Rick and Sajen for adding the dimensions of their swords to the posts above. Rick's sword is a tad bigger, with a blade that is a cm longer (45.7 vs 44.7 cm) than Sajen's, and also longer overall (58.1 cm vs 56.5 cm). Nevertheless, these are significantly smaller than 19th C examples, such as most of those shown in the picture of the panoply above. On size alone, Rick's and Sajen's swords would be considered "archaic kris." As already noted, these two swords resemble the example A-11 shown above.

Taking a closer look at the ricikin on these two swords shows some interesting features, and perhaps some important differences.



Sajen's sword is on the left; Rick's sword is on the right

Apart from one sword having two asang asang and the other only one, at first sight they look remarkably similar. Closer inspection shows some small differences.

1. The "elephant trunk" area of Sajen's sword shows a gandik that is mostly vertical with a hint of convexity to the free edge; Rick's sword shows an oval space bounded by the sekar kacang and the gandik, caused by the gandik having a concave profile to its free edge. Sajen's configuration is closer to an old keris style, while Rick's example is reflected in many later Moro kris, especially those from Sulu.
2. The line of separation between the ganja and blade on Sajen's sword tends to arc up (not exactly angled but definitely a major departure from horizontal); Rick's sword also departs from linear, but in a more angled manner. While Sajen's configuration is unusual, I don't think much can be made of differences in the line of separation between these two.
3. The greneng on Sajen's sword appear more worn than on Rick's. While this might suggest that Sajen's example is older, I don't think we can make much of this finding. Oxidative losses depend so much on how the piece has been stored and kept oiled.

Both of these swords are excellent candidates for originating before 1800. They may or may not be as old as A-11, but they share a lot of the same important characteristics that reflect the origin of the kris from the "Modern Javanese Keris."

[Ian]

Looking back through the Archives of this site, I came across this most interesting example. It is very thought provoking and had been discussed here a little earlier. Pictures are provided in the later post but are very poor quality. I have spent some time working on them to better define the characteristics on the blade in particular. After more than a decade, it's probably worth reconsidering this keris/kris.

My feeling is that this is definitely a Moro blade but with a strong Balinese influence. My reason for labeling it as "Moro" is the central panel of twist core "pamor" and the presence of an "arrow head" formed by the confluence of two grooves running each side of the sogokan (circled on one of the pictures below). The resemblance of the gandik and lambe gaja to those seen on some Balinese keris was noted previously.

Does anyone have an example of the "arrow head" appearing on Javanese or Balinese keris? I would like to know the indigenous name and meaning for this feature because I think it may be a good indicator of "Moro" origin.

It is hard to know whether this one ever had an asang asang. There is a curious arrangement at the base of the hilt that might suggest it did, but this was not discussed previously. The relationship of the hilt to a Java daemon was discussed earlier, however. The tip of the blade appears to have been damaged, and was also commented on previously.

Dimensions of the sword were not reported.

.

[Ian]

Continuing in the same theme, here is one from the sold area of the new Oriental-Arms site: Item number 15238. Artzi has labeled this one as Malay Peninsula in origin, and the style of hilt and the asang asang would support that attribution. However, I think the blade is likely Moro in origin for two reasons:

1. The presence of a twist core central panel on an obviously old blade, and
2. The presence of an "arrow head"

A twist core central panel on a Malay made kris blade does occur, but on broad blades with a central fuller (see A-9 and A-13 shown in the post #8 of this thread) that post date this example considerably IMHO. I have already commented on the "arrow head" feature, which is strongly correlated with Moro blades.

The twist core area on this sword is worthy of comment. Four separate rods have been used with a prominent chevron pattern either side of a central chevron pair. This is unusual and clearly a prestige blade--perhaps a presentation blade. A single chevron pattern is seen in example A-6 in post #8 of this thread.

The indicators of substantial age are several:

• Short blade (16.5 in.) and overall length (21.5 in.)
• Straight line of separation between gangya and blade
• A gandik with a convex profile similar to the "Modern Javanese Keris"

An unusual feature to my eye is the lambe gajah. Three horizontal lines span the line of separation--which two represent the "lips"? This arrangement is not unique to this sword (see the example immediately preceding this sword), and perhaps the keris experts can explain its distribution and significance, and at what time it was a feature.

As with other swords in this thread, I believe this blade predates 1800, and probably by a substantial period of time.
.

[David]

Originally Posted by Ian

Continuing in the same theme, here is one from the sold area of the new Oriental-Arms site: Item number 15238. Artzi has labeled this one as Malay Peninsula in origin, and the style of hilt and the asang asang would support that attribution. However, I think the blade is likely Moro in origin for two reasons:

1. The presence of a twist core central panel on an obviously old blade, and
2. The presence of an "arrow head"

A twist core central panel on a Malay made kris blade does occur, but on broad blades with a central fuller (see A-9 and A-13 shown in the post #8 of this thread) that post date this example considerably IMHO. I have already commented on the "arrow head" feature, which is strongly correlated with Moro blades.

The twist core area on this sword is worthy of comment. Four separate rods have been used with a prominent chevron pattern either side of a central chevron pair. This is unusual and clearly a prestige blade--perhaps a presentation blade. A single chevron pattern is seen in example A-6 in post #8 of this thread.

The indicators of substantial age are several:

• Short blade (16.5 in.) and overall length (21.5 in.)
• Straight line of separation between gangya and blade
• A gandik with a convex profile similar to the "Modern Javanese Keris"

An unusual feature to my eye is the lambe gajah. Three horizontal lines span the line of separation--which two represent the "lips"? This arrangement is not unique to this sword (see the example immediately preceding this sword), and perhaps the keris experts can explain its distribution and significance, and at what time it was a feature.

As with other swords in this thread, I believe this blade predates 1800, and probably by a substantial period of time.
.

Ian, I agree with you that this is a Moro blade, but aside from the somewhat unusual ferrule i don't really see anything in particular that would place this hilt in Malay culture. Also, most Malay Peninsula Sundangs don't have asang asang.
If the horizontal lines you are referring to are the ones on the front of the gonjo (gangya in Moro terms), these lines are indeed often present in Javanese keris of the Banten period (16-17th century) as well as Balinese keris.
But you can also find these lines on well made Moro kris from the late 19th century.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by David

Ian, I agree with you that this is a Moro blade, but aside from the somewhat unusual ferrule i don't really see anything in particular that would place this hilt in Malay culture. Also, most Malay Peninsula Sundangs don't have asang asang.

Agree completely with you David!

[Ian]

Originally Posted by David

Ian, I agree with you that this is a Moro blade, but aside from the somewhat unusual ferrule i don't really see anything in particular that would place this hilt in Malay culture. Also, most Malay Peninsula Sundangs don't have asang asang.
If the horizontal lines you are referring to are the ones on the front of the gonjo (gangya in Moro terms), these lines are indeed often present in Javanese keris of the Banten period (16-17th century) as well as Balinese keris.
But you can also find these lines on well made Moro kris from the late 19th century.

David,

Thank you very much for this reply. As far as a Malay attribution, I believe there are Malay blades that have asang asang. Whether these are Malay blades repurposed by Moros, or Malay blades made for Malays that have asang asang, is unclear. See also here. As I look at what I believe to be Malay sundang blades, these tend to be straight and a little wider than most Moro sundang, and usually have a central groove that runs almost the length of the blade. Is that your experience also?

I would reference the blade for item A-9 (in the panoply above, post #8) as being in the Malay style but perhaps of Moro manufacture. It has a central groove with a double-chevron, twist-core pattern, and an atypical gold (?) hilt, which appears to have been restricted to high nobility owners. There are pictures of Datu Piang and a Maguindanao Sultan having swords with similar hilts. Our fellow forumite, Battara, has another example with the same hilt style that he posted here a long time ago.

I have not seen Malay sundang with classical sogokan or blumbangan, although longitudinal ridges and grooves starting adjacent to the gangya and running various lengths down the blade seem common. Looking at hilts on Malay sundang, I find them sometimes hard to distinguish from Sulu hilts. A small round ferrule, perhaps imitating a mendek, appears to be a consistent feature on Malay sundang, as well as a somewhat "fatter" grip section often bound with cord and sometimes segmented into three sections by raised metal rings. Most Malay sundang appear to be crowned by a simple kakatua pommel with side panels, with ivory being a common material. Please tell me if I am mistaken about any of these features.

The picture you posted appears to be a Sulu or Maguindanao sundang showing twin lines below the concave edge of the gandik, and another pair of lines at the bottom end of the gangya (cocor). It is interesting that you note these styles present on 16-17th C Javanese keris. This helps, I think, in understanding why some of the so-called "archaic Moro kris" show these features fairly consistently.

Could you post pictures of a 16-17th Javanese kris showing these lines below the gandik and on the gangya?

Thanks David.

Regards,

Ian.

[David]

Originally Posted by Ian

Could you post pictures of a 16-17th Javanese kris showing these lines below the gandik and on the gangya?

Sorry Ian, i had missed your question. Here are a couple of examples. I can add more when i find them.

[Battara]

Here are examples of Indonesian kris sundang with asana-asang