Nicholas-Noël Boutet & Jean LePage

[survtech]

Thank you for admitting me to your portal, my name is Mike Barnett, I am based in Perth, Western Australia. My collecting focus is on French high-art pocket pistols made by the gunmakers to Napoleon and the French Royal Court, specifically pistols made by Nicholas-Noël Boutet and Jean LePage.

I have not always focused exclusively on pocket pistols, so for my first post I will discuss a pair of pistols, commissioned by Napoleon and presented to Mariano Luis d'Urquijo, Spanish first minister for Foreign Affairs who later presented them to José de la Serna e Hinojosa, 1st Count of the Andes and last Viceroy to Peru. (May 1, 1770 – July 6, 1832)

They were passed down by descent to Eugenia de la Rocha y Fontecilla, Marquesa de Angulo great grandmother of the last person to own them before me.

The pistols were sound but on the verge of becoming seriously corroded due to neglect.

I wrote a paper on these pistols with further information, including hidden marks, I'm not sure if links to PDF's are allowed, so I won't link at the moment.

[Pendita65]

Hi,

nice to see such a beautifull set of pistols in such high quality thanks for sharing them.

best wishes, Martin

[fernando]

Welcome to the forum, survtech .
I know from talks with collector historian Rainer Daehnhardt that he is a great fan of Jean LePage. I remember visiting an exhibition where he had for show an interesting pair of Portuguese barrels made in 1584, which were later mounted on a pair of pistols by LePage in 1811. Pity i don't have clear pictures of the pistols themselves.


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[survtech]

Thank for your kind words.

"I know from talks with collector historian Rainer Daehnhardt that he is a great fan of Jean LePage."

Me too Fernando, below is nice pair of cased percussion pistols and a very rare pair of presentation pocket pistols.

The percussions are by LePage Moutier; the pockets are much earlier and very very rare.

Jean LePage made some spectacular presentation pistols and long-arms, but his presentation de-luxe grade pocket pistols are exceptionally rare.

There is a magnificent Montagny engraved pair of double-barrel pocket pistols by LePage in the Metropolitan Museum of Art but, other than the pair shown here, I am not aware of any others, search engines also only come up with the Met pair and the pair you see here.

To say that these pocket pistols are the equal of anything from the Versailles Manufactory is an understatement, these pistols are stunningly beautiful.

As is usual for presentation pocket pistols, each lock-face carries a different engraving. Like the Met pistols, the lock-face engravings are likely the work of Fleury Montagny; they are certainly from the pattern book of Ignace Joseph Chevalier de Claussin (1766-1844), as are many of the presentation pistols by both Boutet and LePage.

The four lock-face engravings are: –

“Neighing Horse” from an etching by Paulus Potter (1625-1654) (This exact engraving is also on one of the Met pistols.)

An untitled etching of a ram by Paulus Potter.

An untitled etching of a ram by Nicolaes Berchem (1620-1683)

“Pissing Sheep” by Marcus de Bay (1639-1844).

[survtech]

"I know from talks with collector historian Rainer Daehnhardt that he is a great fan of Jean LePage."

Fernando, apart from the pair in the Metropolitan Museum of Art and this pair, I have been unable to find any other examples of deluxe grade pocket pistols by Jean LePage.

I would be very interested to know if Mr. Daehnhardt or any other Jean LePage collector knows of any other pocket pistols by Lepage of similar quality to these.

Unfortunately, I have no idea of the provenance other than they were photographed for an article by Boutet expert Dean Taylor for the 1982 American Society of Arms Collectors Bulletin 68:70-82.

Kind regards

Mike

[fernando]

Originally Posted by fernando

... Pity i don't have clear pictures of the pistols themselves...

For yours and all interested members delight, here is a set of pictures of these great pistols, a kind courtesy of Professor Rainer Daehnhardt.
As previously noted,these barrels were manufactured in Lisbon in 1584 for the Duke Don Diego de Gomez de Silva y Mendoza, a noble Luso Spaniard, Captain General of the Portuguese frontier, later Vice Roy of the Kingdom (1564-1630). They were remounted under commission in Paris in 1811 by Napoleon's gun smith Jean Lepage, exclusively for the reuse of these magnificent pair of Portuguese barrels.
It is known that Le Page used to produce all guns for Napoleon's personal use, as being preferred by him to those of Boutet, due to a flaw in their nechanism.



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[fernando]

A couple more ...



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[Fernando K]

With all due respect, allow me to doubt. The cannons seem very elaborate to be from 1584. The fire gilding, the chiseling work...
Affectionately

[corrado26]

This boxlock pistol proves that Lepage not only made the most valuable pieces, but also pistols for the common man - unfortunately in not particularly good condition.

[fernando]

No problem with that, Udo. But ... is that an authentic mark of Jean Lepage ?

[corrado26]

May be yes, may be no, I don't know it, its condition is too bad to decide it, but the style of the wood is very similar to the works of Le Page.

[survtech]

Fernando, thank you for posting the photographs; the history is interesting....


With regard to the pocket pistol; it is known that LePage also retailed Liege-made pistols from his Paris shop.

[survtech]

It is known that Le Page used to produce all guns for Napoleon's personal use, as being preferred by him to those of Boutet, due to a flaw in their nechanism.

Interesting comment Fernando. Why would Napoleon grant Boutet an 18 year concession as Director Artiste of the Versailles Manufactory to manufacture Armes Deluxe and military arms if Boutet's firearms were flawed?

Between 1800-1813 the Versailles Manufactory delivered 10,000 muskets and musketons to the grenadiers and chasseurs of Imperial Guard. (Dean Taylor Arms Collecting Vol.20 No.4 1982).

Napoleon also commissioned Boutet to produce arms for his family, Marshals of the Empire and other people important to him.

Jean LePage produced superb and beautiful firearms but, other than your comment, I have not found any evidence to suggest that his firearms were technically superior to those of Boutet. Can this statement be supported with evidence?

Respectfully
Mike Barnett
Perth
Western Australia

[fernando]

Originally Posted by survtech

[I]... Why would Napoleon grant Boutet an 18 year concession as Director Artiste of the Versailles Manufactory to manufacture Armes Deluxe and military arms if Boutet's firearms were flawed?
I have not found any evidence to suggest that his firearms were technically superior to those of Boutet. Can this statement be supported with evidence?...

No Mike, i have no phisical evidence, nor i hope that such point of view, that i heard through the grapevine, will tie me to the whipping pole ... i hope.
Yet the full reading was:

... Those from Boutet were the ones that Napoleon offered because he called them "fusil de vitrine" (showcase). Good to see but not to use. The angle of the flint's impact was very steep, which broke the dog's neck very easily. This did not happen to LePage's weapons ...

[fernando]

Originally Posted by survtech

...With regard to the pocket pistol; it is known that LePage also retailed Liege-made pistols from his Paris shop...

So those products were not manufactured in LePage workshops !

[survtech]

Originally Posted by corrado26

This boxlock pistol proves that Lepage not only made the most valuable pieces, but also pistols for the common man - unfortunately in not particularly good condition.

The first photograph is from a Liege pistol.
The second photograph is from a Boutet pistol.
The third photograph is from a LePage pistol.
The fourth photograph is from a Jean Aubron pistol.

Fish-scale carving is quite common in pocket pistols.

Kind regards

Mike

[survtech]

I heard through the grapevine, will tie me to the whipping pole

Perhaps you should be tied to the whipping pole Fernando, if only for a few lashes, heard it through the grapevine is gossip, not research, I know you know that, and I am just having a little fun with you.

With much respect and a wink

Mike

[fernando]

Originally Posted by survtech

... heard it through the grapevine is gossip, not research ...

Mike, to tell you the truth, i didn't hear it through the grapevine. It is just that i had no permission to publish the author's name; one supposed to know rather well what he is talking about. So this is the way that i realized would be the trick !

[fernando]

More from the grapevine ... or should i say, courtesy Rainer Daehnhardt .


" For those who are willing to learn and never handled very long pistol barrels of royal provenance remounted at a later period:
Here is a Louis XIII wheellock pistol barrel of the XVIIth century used at Napoleon’s time to create a small flintlock fowler for a young boy.
The other barrel still exists in a museum, all complete with it’s french wheelock ignition system and it’s original butt. Who put it together was an apprentice of the LePage shop in a difficult political period, when LePage was closed.
The small boy’s fowler with a spanish boot-butt was created by using a number of elements of a royal bavarian wheellock pistol of the turn of the XVIth to the XVIIth century to be used at the Munique Court of the Elector of Bavaria.
The barrel is heavily chiseled with gold leave ground rather similar to the 1584 pistols. The reason is simple. Most gunmakers working in Lisbon by then were of German origin so their guns were born out with the same taste. What is very unusual on this marriage of elements of two different periods is that they did not only use the early barrel but also the ramrod pipes, the butt finial, the barrel tang and even a major part of the lockplate ".

[fernando]

A) Louis XIII wheellock pistol barrel remounted on a napoleonic boy’s flintlock fowler.
B) The muzzle portion of the same Louis XIII pistol barrel. In excelent condition.
C) The ramrod pipes of the Munique wheellock pistol barrel all heavily chiselled and the ground gilt, quite similar to the work of the 1584 pistol barrels. Only those hardly saw any use at all.


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[fernando]

Further material from Professor Daehnardt ...

D) The center view of the Munique Court wheellock pistol barrel.

E) The lower view of the same showing also the barrel tang of its use in Spain together with the original Munique School heavily chiseled barrel with gold leave ground.


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[fernando]

Yet another one ...


Details of the muzzle of the long wheellock pistol barrel made either by DANIEL SADELER or CASPAR SPÄT.


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[fernando]

Originally Posted by survtech

I'm not sure if links to PDF's are allowed, so I won't link at the moment.

Yes Mike, PDF's are allowed. Only some times they are a bit tricky to open.

On another note, once my source (RD) decided to open his voluminous data chest, i would like to post here in written text, some biographic notes on the LePage saga, for our members perusal. I also hope they include some 'missing links' to your info files of this master.

Quote:

During the period of the French Revolution, 1789 -1799, LePage's workshop and store were robbed by the crowd and all the weapons present were stolen. There is an engraving of this with women coming out of the LePAGE store with halberds, swords and rifles in their hands. After seing this, what was new to me at the time, that LePage also sold halberds, i researched and came to conclusion that it was true. LePage also sold polearms. Actually, one has already passed through my hands.
Also i have a espadim (small sword) made and signed by LePage, richly inlaid with worked gold, with the Royal Portuguese coat of arms, which Queen Dona Maria the 2nd, while in refuge in Paris during the liberal Campaigns, had it made for the Duke of Loulé, who went to collect her and bring her back to Portugal.
Back to the plunder, his employees fled with parts of pieces they have started, to later complete them minimally, with little decoration. The value of weapons at the time depended on their functional condition.
Many weapons from Boutet and also from LePage have passed through my hands. Those for Napoleon's personal use tend to be by LePage and those he offered were by Boutet.

PS
Concerning Udo's pocket pistol (post #9), this has the basic characteristics to be a LePage product ... although with a low quality finish. The easiest way to confirm that, is to disassemble it and check whether it has the serial number and production year.

[survtech]

One often reads that Nicholas-Noël Boutet was, “arguably, the finest gunmaker the world has ever known". This, of course, is not true, Lepage, Aubron, JB Laroche, Jean La Roche, Chasteau, Pirmet, Gosset, Manceaux and many others produced equally magnificent firearms.

The mounting of their arms at Versailles is certainly excellent and the carving of their stocks is most beautifully conceived; but their barrels are not fitted in that workmanlike manner. They are also very inferior to my countrymen in the art of browning and in the construction of their locks.


The above observation, read without context or a reference to the utterer, could leave the student of arms with an incorrect view on the arms produced by the Versailles Manufactory.

When one realises that the comment was made by visiting Englishman, Colonel Thomas Thorton, when English/French relations were stressed due to imminent war, one realises that the comment was churlish and biased.

My wife commented that antique firearms (probably also weapons in general) seem to be the domain of old geezers, or perhaps to put it more delicately, the hobby attracts an older demographic (I am also 76).

Thinking about your quoted comments regarding Boutet-versus-Lepage; I think it is important for future generations (who may rely on us older collectors for information) that we do not let our personal biases colour the facts.

I think it is important that we quote a reference when making controversial statement such that the student can evaluate the likelihood that one or more of the Logical Fallacies are not in play.