Balinese Keris with 2 Pamor

[Athanase]

Hello,

I just received this balinese Keris with old blade with 2 pamor.
The blade came with bugis selut in brass, and balinese hilt which is unusual.
I have already seen this type of hilt in second half of XXth century production, but maybe is more old ?

Luckily I managed to adapt a sheath that I had bought a year ago but without a blade. I replaced the Selut with an Uwer.

[David]

Very nice pamor Tangkis blade. It has been my understanding that blades like this with a different pamor on each side are meant as a protection against black magic.
I also have a keris with pamor Tangkis in Bali dress though i have never been fully convinced that the blade origin is Bali/Lombak, even though a very well informed senior collect once told me he felt it was quite possible. I do have the same question about your blade, especially given the style of gonjo. But as you may know, it is not at all unusual to find Javanese blades in Bali dress that are very legitimate. With mine it is clear that the Balinese sarung was indeed created specifically for the blade.
Very interesting and somewhat unusual Cecekahan style hilt btw.

[Athanase]

Thank you David. You Keris is very nice !
The blade length is 42,5cm is very long for the hypothesis of javanese blade.
I have the same tow pamor in other balineses blades (one pamor per blade).
The Kebo (javanese name) gandik is unusual for old balinese blade (often I see that on Moderne blades). Maybe the blade is more older than XIXth century.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Athanase

Hello,

I just received this balinese Keris with old blade with 2 pamor.
The blade came with bugis selut in brass, and balinese hilt which is unusual.
I have already seen this type of hilt in second half of XXth century production, but maybe is more old ?

Luckily I managed to adapt a sheath that I had bought a year ago but without a blade. I replaced the Selut with an Uwer.

Hello Séverin,

Very attractive keris blade, I like it! Please can you show us how the adopted scabbard fits the blade?

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Hello David,

A very nice keris you have shown us, thank you! What have you done with the scabbard and handle that it looks so shiny? You just polished the wood or have you given it a new shellac finish?

Regards,
Detlef

[A. G. Maisey]

If I completely disregard the Balinese style dress, I would be inclined to place this blade as East Jawa. Stylistically it echoes Mojopahit.

I doubt that it was made in Bali, but it could easily have been made in Lombok & fitted with its dress there, or it could have come from East Jawa, Bali & Jawa are only a narrow strip of water apart, and Balinese people have lived in East Jawa for a very long time, the reverse is also true.

Then there is the fact that many Balinese pusaka keris blades are Javanese in origin.

[Athanase]

So it's probably an old East Javanese blade.
Are long blades over 40cm common in East Java?
Is it possible to relate it stylistically more precisely to a Tanghu?
I am aware that it is very worn and that the Greneng as well as the Kembang Kacang have disappeared.

[A. G. Maisey]

I do incline to East Jawa for this blade, but there are insufficient indicators to be too definite about that. What I can be a little more definite about is that I can see nothing in the elements of style or construction that point to it having been made in Bali itself.

Tangguh is an opinion on origin, it is a classification system that uses certain indicators to form the basis for an opinion on where the blade might have originated.

We normally use about a dozen or so indicators, and only a couple of those indicators rely completely on the appearance of the blade, I cannot give a firm opinion on this blade from just a photo on a computer screen.

[David]

Alan, i am curious what you thoughts might be on my blade concerning origin. As i stated, the dress seems to have been made for it, but i remain on the fence regarding where the blade may have been made.

[A. G. Maisey]

Pretty much the same as for Athanase David, except that if I look at it as a whole I'd incline more to Lombok.

The reason for this variation is that Athanase's blade does have a couple of indicators that are Mojo in style --- not age, but style, the upright blumbangan, the slow luk. Your blade has a squarish blumbangan, still has slow luk, similar pamor, but it does not look even vaguely Mojoish to my eye.

Lombok had a population of people from Jawa, Bali, Bugis & of course the Sasaks. In my opinion, more likely to be Lombok, but there is nothing that waves a Bali flag.

Like much to do with keris, its just opinion, & opinions rest upon experience. Somebody with equal but different experience to my own could have a different opinion.

[henri]

An other one I got from one of our famous member !

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by henri

An other one I got from one of our famous member !

Famous member?

[Sajen]

Hello David,

Have you overlooked my question in #5?

[David]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello David,

A very nice keris you have shown us, thank you! What have you done with the scabbard and handle that it looks so shiny? You just polished the wood or have you given it a new shellac finish?

Regards,
Detlef

Sorry Detlef, i did miss that question.
The ensemble came with that finish. It does seem to be some sort of shellac finish. A bit unusual, but i have no idea where or when it was applied.

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Pretty much the same as for Athanase David, except that if I look at it as a whole I'd incline more to Lombok.

The reason for this variation is that Athanase's blade does have a couple of indicators that are Mojo in style --- not age, but style, the upright blumbangan, the slow luk. Your blade has a squarish blumbangan, still has slow luk, similar pamor, but it does not look even vaguely Mojoish to my eye.

Lombok had a population of people from Jawa, Bali, Bugis & of course the Sasaks. In my opinion, more likely to be Lombok, but there is nothing that waves a Bali flag.

Like much to do with keris, its just opinion, & opinions rest upon experience. Somebody with equal but different experience to my own could have a different opinion.

Thanks Alan. I have been going under the Lombok assumption for some time with this keris, but i am always open to different opinions.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by David

Sorry Detlef, i did miss that question.
The ensemble came with that finish. It does seem to be some sort of shellac finish. A bit unusual, but i have no idea where or when it was applied.

Thank you David!

[kino]

How are the blades forged to get opposing pamors.

[kai]

Hello Albert,

The vast majority of keris blades exhibits a 3-layered construction with a central steel layer for holding an edge enclosed by two sheets of pamor. Thus, the pamor can be chosen for each side.

Regards,
Kai

[kino]

Thanks Kai.
I suppose the same technique is applied to Moro Kris’ with opposing patterns.

[kai]

Yes, I believe so (never studied such an example). Except for a few (and usually more recent) Moro kris with blades made from a single billet of imported steel, all others that I've seen followed the traditional 3-layered construction.

Regards,
Kai

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by kino

How are the blades forged to get opposing pamors.

Here is a visual link that offers some insights to what Kai mentions.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...42&postcount=5