Curious Iranun kampilan feature

[xasterix]

Halloo, I originally wanted to ride on the recent kampilan thread, but decided to create a new one for better visibility. I just restored my Iranun kampilan, and before going on a test run, I noticed a peculiar feature...

...its "teeth" are dentures- they're removable! The upper part still has traces of tree sap (and smells strongly too, the bubblegum-red type, not the black one).

I'm wondering if anyone else with this type of Iranun kampilan pommel noticed this peculiar feature? TIA!

[SanibelSwassa]

Wow… that is a really cool find!!! Great blade on that Kampilan!!!

Congrats!!

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by SanibelSwassa

Wow… that is a really cool find!!! Great blade on that Kampilan!!!

Congrats!!

Thanks sir, Happy Holidays!

[kino]

Interesting, similar to a mortise and tenon construction.
The “teeth” is dark wood, same type as the crosspiece? I like the contrasting colors.
Did you do the rattan wrap around the crossguard?
Great looking sword. Congrats.

I took a look at mine but none have the dentures.

I have this, don’t know why it was constructed in this manner.



However I this manong from the Visayas that needs some of its teeth replaced.

[kino]

What’s with the wooden peg, is it a repair?

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by kino

What’s with the wooden peg, is it a repair?

Sharp eyes sir, it is indeed =) I was able to clean and re-adhesive the hilt interior and tang by opening up the previous repair job and removing the pommel. Everything else came with the kampilan already, including the rattan wraps.

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by kino

Interesting, similar to a mortise and tenon construction.
The “teeth” is dark wood, same type as the crosspiece? I like the contrasting colors.
Did you do the rattan wrap around the crossguard?
Great looking sword. Congrats.

I took a look at mine but none have the dentures.

I have this, don’t know why it was constructed in this manner.
Attachment 233040Attachment 233041


However I this manong from the Visayas that needs some of its teeth replaced.
Attachment 233042

Thanks for the compliment sir! Your swords are amazing as usual. The cleared-out part where the hair holes should be is interesting; I suspect that was cleared out to give way to another attachment. Tenegre looks great and lifelike; if I'm not mistaken, that's the monkey pommel variant.

Almost forgot about the wood: the denture wood seems to be similar material to the guard; some kind of softwood, while the hilt+pommel material is bunti/banati.

[Gavin Nugent]

Xasterix,

That is some nice timber work, both the carving and the manner of joining what appears to my eyes as being a replaced pommel.
The point of the plug is consistent with several Kampilan mounting points I have seen and the larger one I have here.

What do you think "may" have been meant/intended culturally in the inclusion of separate "teeth" and having that different coloured piece being incorporated back into the pommel?

Kino,

The cut out intrigues me.

At first glance I thought what a wonderful way to retain small votive personal items, although little more than parchment could be concealed within. It seems the wire pins had been intended to keep something safe and secure within and not used for regular access. I feel a replacement hair block would have also been resin set.
Perhaps it once had a bone insert retaining hair, age cracks took a toll and eventually all became dislodged and removed?

Whilst no definitive answers may be available, what considerations have you pondered.


I have checked the three Kampilan currently here and none have any such additions like yours Xasterix.

The smaller cutlass sized one does give hints that the block typically seen as retaining hair, that is has been removed/cut back, but the patina is consistent throughout and there is enough protrusion present to consider it may be unaltered too.
Perhaps the few very slight, perfectly spaces recesses that can be seen were markings/depressions intended for drilling holes and mounting hair?

The myriad of designs and complexities are as vast as Kris from the regions.

[Ian]

Xas,

I've looked through my own collection of kampilan, about eight that I could lay hands on readily, and none have the "denture" feature you note.

Ian

[werecow]

Mine has "teeth" but not "dentures", i.e. they're not a separate piece (sorry for the crappy picture quality, my phone camera still sucks).

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by Gavin Nugent

Xasterix,

That is some nice timber work, both the carving and the manner of joining what appears to my eyes as being a replaced pommel.
The point of the plug is consistent with several Kampilan mounting points I have seen and the larger one I have here.

What do you think "may" have been meant/intended culturally in the inclusion of separate "teeth" and having that different coloured piece being incorporated back into the pommel?

Kino,

The cut out intrigues me.

At first glance I thought what a wonderful way to retain small votive personal items, although little more than parchment could be concealed within. It seems the wire pins had been intended to keep something safe and secure within and not used for regular access. I feel a replacement hair block would have also been resin set.
Perhaps it once had a bone insert retaining hair, age cracks took a toll and eventually all became dislodged and removed?

Whilst no definitive answers may be available, what considerations have you pondered.


I have checked the three Kampilan currently here and none have any such additions like yours Xasterix.

The smaller cutlass sized one does give hints that the block typically seen as retaining hair, that is has been removed/cut back, but the patina is consistent throughout and there is enough protrusion present to consider it may be unaltered too.
Perhaps the few very slight, perfectly spaces recesses that can be seen were markings/depressions intended for drilling holes and mounting hair?

The myriad of designs and complexities are as vast as Kris from the regions.

Halloo Gavin,

An artisan-friend pointed out that it may have something to do with the "hole" in the dentures. When the dentures are removed, the "hole" opens up, allowing the owner to put thin textile, string, hair, or other attachments. Instead of being tied up, these attachments can be integrated to the kampilan easily by opening and closing the dentures.

The thing about the hilt, the pommel seems to still be part of the existing wood core that still wraps around the tang (the pommel 'cracks' correspond to the cracks in the existing wood core. So it's possible that the whole hilt itself (not just the pommel) was a replacement, then got cracked into two pieces, and brought back together again.

There's also the possibility that the whole hilt is original, got cracked then repaired; and instead it's the guard that was replaced. The evidence that can support this alternative theory is the rattan wrap on the guard, which is lighter in patina (and likely younger in age) to the hilt grip rattan wrap.

[xasterix]

Thanks for your inputs, Ian and werecrow. I suspect that it may only be this specific type of kampilan pommel that has removable dentures. I was able to find another sample on the 'net which seems to have dentures similar to mine, but I haven't been able to verify yet with the owner if it's removable.

[kino]

Originally Posted by Gavin Nugent

Xasterix,

That is some nice timber work, both the carving and the manner of joining what appears to my eyes as being a replaced pommel.
The point of the plug is consistent with several Kampilan mounting points I have seen and the larger one I have here.

What do you think "may" have been meant/intended culturally in the inclusion of separate "teeth" and having that different coloured piece being incorporated back into the pommel?

Kino,

The cut out intrigues me.

At first glance I thought what a wonderful way to retain small votive personal items, although little more than parchment could be concealed within. It seems the wire pins had been intended to keep something safe and secure within and not used for regular access. I feel a replacement hair block would have also been resin set.
Perhaps it once had a bone insert retaining hair, age cracks took a toll and eventually all became dislodged and removed?

Whilst no definitive answers may be available, what considerations have you pondered.

Gavin, maybe hairtufts set in a pieces of wood with various colors, black, red, white, change depending on the mood or as someone once suggested a noise maker similar to Tiger Bells. all speculative of course, we’ll ever know.

[xasterix]

Here's a holiday bonus for all who contributed in the thread, a preview of how my restored kampilan cuts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMrcIqte6-4

Kampilan handling has a steep learning curve as compared to other Filipino and Moro traditional blades that I've tested.

[kino]

You deliver some clean blows with that Kampilan. Doe the blade have a lot of flex?
Good work on the hilt repair.

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by kino

You deliver some clean blows with that Kampilan. Doe the blade have a lot of flex?
Good work on the hilt repair.

Thanks!!! Yep it's the usual kampilan blade: light, thin, flexy, can be bent or unbent even with bare hands.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by xasterix

Thanks!!! Yep it's the usual kampilan blade: light, thin, flexy, can be bent or unbent even with bare hands.

Question I hope you can elaborate on. The video demonstrated just how effective these swords would have been in open spaces, thank you for sharing... I am giving my banana trees a little side eye now to make sure they aren't giving me any attitude... watch out if they do.

What I am curious about by your definition.

Can be bent, I interpret as can flex with your hands, (I know I get about 2 inches of flex in the end half if the blades here), but unbent has me thinking that you can bend the blade and it stays bent rather than a tensile flex that retains its shape, and you can then unbend the bend initially made.

Am I understanding this correctly?

[kai]

Hello Gavin,

Yes, kampilan blades do have a bit of flex (and will return true if things are not overdone).

As you assumed, Ray was referring to the blade setting a bend from poorly aligned cutting attempts; usually, this can be manually straightened out again. (Obviously, this should be avoided with antique blades; OTOH, some trial & error is part of the valuable hands-on research and old blades can be surprisingly resilient...)

Regards,
Kai

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Gavin,

Yes, kampilan blades do have a bit of flex (and will return true if things are not overdone).

As you assumed, Ray was referring to the blade setting a bend from poorly aligned cutting attempts; usually, this can be manually straightened out again. (Obviously, this should be avoided with antique blades; OTOH, some trial & error is part of the valuable hands-on research and old blades can be surprisingly resilient...)

Regards,
Kai

Yup, you got it... a bit of cutting error, and the kampilan blade should return if no successive attempts are made; but an accumulation of cutting errors- misalignment, hitting environmental stuff- can put a huge bend, or even a wave-like series of bends on a kampilan. It's easily straightened out though- I use my hands or knee. I bend the whole blade in one direction, then the opposite way; then do smaller adjustment bends as I go. A bent kampilan in the battlefield would set back the wielder probably 1-2 mins to get everything straight again. But the important thing is that it doesn't break- and so far I haven't broken any kampilan blade yet, only bent.

After that cutting session, my kampilan had a wave-like series of bends; my 2-handed vertical and backhand attempts there were incorrectly done, and the blade state reflected that. I straightened everything out after 2 minutes of bend/unbend with my hands.

[Gavin Nugent]

Thanks for the confirmation Xasterix.

I've nice long Panabas here that has suffered a similar fate through deflection in a previous life. One of the same type you previously presented in your test cut videos. I've made no attempt to rectify it though, something for the future custodian to fix if desired.

I find it interesting that the Panabas relies on strapping/binding friction, sometimes combined with resin to retain a blade, whilst the kampilan has the added security of pins, be they exposed or hidden. I've yet to have a Kampilan blade come to me with a loose blade, but many Panabas I've had and handled, you wouldn't swing them without new bindings and resin because so many had blades that could be pulled from the handle with little effort. It is one weapon from the region that would benefit greatly in having pins, but perhaps drilling narrow grips only weaken the hilts?

Other sword types from other regions I've seen bend 90 degrees from incorrect cutting approach angles, lesser types fractured or broken. Overall the Philippine weapons are some of the most robust examples in the edged weapons world.

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by Gavin Nugent

Thanks for the confirmation Xasterix.

I've nice long Panabas here that has suffered a similar fate through deflection in a previous life. One of the same type you previously presented in your test cut videos. I've made no attempt to rectify it though, something for the future custodian to fix if desired.

I find it interesting that the Panabas relies on strapping/binding friction, sometimes combined with resin to retain a blade, whilst the kampilan has the added security of pins, be they exposed or hidden. I've yet to have a Kampilan blade come to me with a loose blade, but many Panabas I've had and handled, you wouldn't swing them without new bindings and resin because so many had blades that could be pulled from the handle with little effort. It is one weapon from the region that would benefit greatly in having pins, but perhaps drilling narrow grips only weaken the hilts?

Other sword types from other regions I've seen bend 90 degrees from incorrect cutting approach angles, lesser types fractured or broken. Overall the Philippine weapons are some of the most robust examples in the edged weapons world.

That's an interesting observation Gavin. Of the 7 kampilans I've taken apart (opened up and detached the hilt, guard, etc), at least 2 had wobbly blades.

All of those kampilans had thin, highly flexible blades especially near the tip; I could bend all of them with my hands. However, the 4 panabas blades I've studied so far were variable; the largest (and oldest) one had a thin and highly flexible blade quality like a kampilan's; while my favorite panabas (bamboo cutter) has a rigid blade that doesn't flex even when I use my knee.