Basket hilt Sword for discussion

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi Fernando,
Don't be modest, you have a star quality yourself which I'm sure is equally appreciated.
Kind Regards,
Norman.

Oh ... Norman; i like your Scottish humor .

[Jim McDougall]

Wheres the Drambuie!!!!

[Norman McCormick]

Need you ask !!!

[M ELEY]

I am very grateful for all of the great minds coming in on this thread! As a lover of baskets, but a relative minor leaguer with input and examples to show, I enjoy absorbing all of the knowledge you folks have to offer! This is indeed an exceptional Glascow basket and can only hope it will be cherished as the rare example that it is (i.e. I'd give anything for an example such as this!!).

A good question was raised concerning the 'other type' of basket hilt, the Sinclaire. It would seem there are a lot of these popping up lately and IMHO, many might be more 'modern' than represented. I feel Jim is correct that there appears to be no direct source material for rhese fascinating swords, which is a pity. Perhaps other Forumites who have examples can add them here so we can compare? I know I've seen a few members with them...as long as it doesn't detract from the original thread, that is!

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you so much for joining us on this thread Capn! This is a fascinating example of a 'Glasgow' style basket hilt, and the thing about these kinds of examinations is that there is ALWAYS something further.

In this case, the blade, which has the distinctive mark of the crescent or half moon, which is a marking generally held to have been used by the 'espaderos del Rey' in Spain. This was typically used in conjunction with the makers own punzone, much as in the manner of silversmiths having several markings in their work, the hallmark, year and assayers mark.

Naturally, the half moon became seen as an indicator of high quality for obvious reasons, so was readily copied spuriously by German smiths, who were well known for also using well known Toledo marks and names.

While browsing through 'The Plug Bayonet" by the late R.D.C. Evans, looking through the profusely compiled plates of markings, there they were......in the British bayonet chapter.............TWO of these same almost silhouette half moon marks. Both were 17th c. of course, but unique in being pretty much solid, without 'rostrum' (the lighter inside outline), both to unidentified cutler and rare.

What I am wondering is, would it be possible that these blades might have filtered through the British networks that were importing blades out of Germany in the 17th century? In the case of my 'mortuary' which is presumed c. 1640, it also has the Solingen ANDREA FERARA with the half moon on obverse side of blade.
In this case, I feel this is most certainly a Hounslow product, but with the 'Glasgow' , a blade, curiously WITHOUT the ANDREA FERARA appears on a Scottish sword.
In this paradox, it seems it should have been reversed, as the ANDREA FERARA was of course ubiquitous on basket hilts, but notably less on English swords.

The appearance of the half moon on these plug bayonets to an unidentified cutler simply indicates the circulation of imported (or smuggled) Solingen blades for swords, and the apparent use of the same marks by cutlers working at the time.

Conundrums indeed, but all part of the joy of traveling virtually into these times hoping to find answers, if not simply perspective.

Capn, one more note, the example you have with the incredible blade by Wundes with FOUR (count em) kings heads, is plenty to add!!!

On the 'SINCLAIR' , what is most important is the part played by these basket hilt sabers, often with heart shaped piercings which correspond to those on the Glasgow form shields. The 'Sinclair' term was simply taken by Victorian writers to memorialize George Sinclair who was killed in the tragic event in Norway during the Kalmar War.

[M ELEY]

Thanks for mentioning my basket, Jim. Many of the German-imported blades were completely unmarked, some with just 'Andrea Fererra', some with just the Wundes family king's head markings and some marked with all of the above! I was unaware of the obviously rare crescent moon markings on these. Very intriguing and important to note here for future collectors. Reminds me of the 'fleur de lis' stamps found on English swords from the mid/late 17th c (specifically the dog head/monster head naval types) that threw so many of us until we pinpointed that symbol also existing in British heraldry. The connection with these crescent shapes with German makers makes total sense as most Scottish baskets possessed imported blades-

[Jim McDougall]

In looking further here, I realize that the 'half moon' marking on my 'mortuary' has the 'rostrum' which is the opague outlined area within the moon. As mentioned, this was a key mark to the espaderos del Rey in Spain whuch augmented to makers own punzone.

That it was spuriously applied to blades in Germany to capitalize on the quality factor of Toledo and its masters is well understood. When England brought i German smiths from Holland to spur its own blade making industry, first with Hounslow, later Shotley in the 17th century, it created an interesting conundrum. Just how many blades were actually produced in England in the shops of these enterprises, and how many were 'salted' imports from Solingen, which was where these German smiths were expatriated?

The fact that these spurious German renditions of the famed Toledo mark are seen on plug bayonets, as per R,D.C.Evans (2002) suggests that British makers indeed must have applied 'German style' marks to their blades, as per the Hounslow and Shotley situations. What this shows is that in the broader spectrum of these situations in England with blade producing, there was a confluence of both, blades actually produced there, as well as some degree of imports from Germany.
Naturally we know that in Shotley, blades were being smuggled in from Rotterdam as Mohl (of Shotley) was arrested while accepting shipment of them. With Hounslow it is less clear, but we know the blades were coming into various entrepots in England, and obviously Scotland.

As pointed out by Mark, the variety of blades coming into the cutlers (i.e. sword slippers) in Scotland were from various makers, shops and sources in Solingen, typically filtered through the departure ports in Holland, primarily Rotterdam. With the volume of blades imported, they were of course, collectively from 'Solingen', however this comprised many different shops of various makers, their families, and workers over long periods of time. Keeping this in mind, the often widely varied conventions in markings, names, and other blade augmentations in understandable as found on these swords mounted in England and Scotland.

What is most important here, is to illustrate how examination of a sword example here in discussion can bring to light many key facts and clues in the overall study of arms.....very much 'one thing leads to another'. ...and as always, we learn together