Sudan arm dagger restore or not?

[Marc M.]

Greetings

I just bought a Sudanese arm dagger in a good condition exept for the handle,
and the arm loop is missing.
Top part is ivory and is missing a piece of the cilindrical part, the ivory piece at the top was broken in two pieces and was poorly glued and i glued the pieces again. Question: leave it as it is or restore it.I don't think the dagger is worth the restauration cost by a proffesional restorer, so probably a diy job. The ivory bird can be used for the missing part.
There is a text on the blade, a translation is always welcome.

Best regards
Marc

[RobT]

Hi Marc M,

In the first blade close-up, I think the first four characters are a date. The first three digits appear to be 198. I think the last digit may be a 3. I don't know what the rest of the characters are.

Sincerely,
RobT

[kahnjar1]

If you have the skill, I would definitely say restore the handle, especially since you have some ivory to do it.
Stu

[Marc M.]

Originally Posted by RobT

Hi Marc M,

In the first blade close-up, I think the first four characters are a date. The first three digits appear to be 198. I think the last digit may be a 3. I don't know what the rest of the characters are.

Sincerely,
RobT

Hi Rob

Thank you for the translation.

Sincerely
Marc

[Marc M.]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

If you have the skill, I would definitely say restore the handle, especially since you have some ivory to do it.
Stu

Hi Stu

Thanks for your reaction, i've never restored ivory before but i am not too clumsy, so i give it a try.

Best Regards
Marc

[Richard G]

I think they are all numerals 1983/3/16

Regards
Richard

[Kmaddock]

Hi
What's the plan as I cant see how the piece of ivory will be big enough for the job at hand
I found a hand fret saw is very good at cutting ivory with minimal wastage.
Regards
Ken

[RobT]

Richard G,

I can see where you are going. The symbol after the first "3" is merely a slash to separate the year from the month and likewise, the symbol after the second "3" is a slash that separates the month from the day. I will keep this in mind for the future.

Sincerely,
RobT

[Marc M.]

Originally Posted by Kmaddock

Hi
What's the plan as I cant see how the piece of ivory will be big enough for the job at hand
I found a hand fret saw is very good at cutting ivory with minimal wastage.
Regards
Ken

Hi Ken

I made a mould out of cardboard and am going to cut it out with a scroll saw for model making. the ivory bird is slightly thicker than the part to be repaired.
i will fill the cracks with ivory powder and glue and touch up.

Best regards
Marc

[Marc M.]

Originally Posted by Richard G

I think they are all numerals 1983/3/16

Regards
Richard

Hi Richard

Thanks for the translation of the date, it could of course mean anything.

Best regards
Marc

[Kmaddock]

Hi Marc,

I see where you are going with the repair and looks like you have enough material alright.

Will you put a pin in the handle to locate the part in situ while sanding down and give solidity to the join, also how are you going to blend the new "C" shaped part into the existing.

I never like cutting the original part but the shaping of new to old looks very jagged, are you tempted to make the jagged part more uniform by cutting out some of the broken part?

Take pictures as you go along if you have a chance.

Regards,

Ken

[Marc M.]

Originally Posted by Kmaddock

Hi Marc,

I see where you are going with the repair and looks like you have enough material alright.

Will you put a pin in the handle to locate the part in situ while sanding down and give solidity to the join, also how are you going to blend the new "C" shaped part into the existing.

I never like cutting the original part but the shaping of new to old looks very jagged, are you tempted to make the jagged part more uniform by cutting out some of the broken part?

Take pictures as you go along if you have a chance.

Regards,

Ken

Hi Ken

Good idea to use a pin, i hadn't thought of that because i'm going to use two component glue and it should be strong enough. Will not take anything off the original and try to make the new piece as fit as possible and fill the rest with glue and and ivory dust. Will take pictures during the process.

Best regards
Marc

[Kmaddock]

Hi

I find a pin useful in grafting parts not just for strength but it also center's the part in the same location each time when doing the shaping.

If using epoxy 2 part glue be aware it does go yellow when aged, for this reason I use wood glue for these jobs which sets clear and is easier to incorporate particulate matter to colour the filled in bits.

Wood glue is not as strong as epoxy but hopefully you wont be using the knife for its intended purpose and strength is not the main requirement.

best of luck

Ken

[Marc M.]

Two of my soudan armdaggers.

[Marc M.]

Post above is wrong thread.

[Marc M.]

First attempt to restore the handle, result is ok but could be better, the joints are a bit too visible. Didn't have much time and was a bit rushed. Maybe i'll try again.

Best regards
Marc

[Interested Party]

Nice job. That turned out well. What adhesive did you use?

Marc M. what is the board behind the daggers called? I have seen them used by Samali people as well.

[Rafngard]

Originally Posted by Interested Party

Marc M. what is the board behind the daggers called? I have seen them used by Samali people as well.

The Somali word at least is loox. Here's an example from the Met in NYC, but the Somali museum of Minnesota has a few, and I've seen them in person.

https://collections.artsmia.org/art/...-board-somalia

Thanks (or mahadsanid in af soomaaliga),
Leif

[Marc M.]

Originally Posted by Interested Party

Nice job. That turned out well. What adhesive did you use?

Marc M. what is the board behind the daggers called? I have seen them used by Samali people as well.

Hi Interested Party

I used industrial super glue.
It is a Quran board that children use to learn to write in the Quran school in Mali.

Best regards
Marc

[Kmaddock]

Nice enough job
But the fact the glue is wrong colour and the join is jagged it is about the best you were going to get away with.
The only way I would have done any better would be to just make the entire ring section/ un peen the tang and insert a new entire ring and bond to the remainder of the handle but this would have been very very invasive and not something I would willingly do.
Ivory would not match either, have you tried to stain the new ivory with something like tea or coffee, I have never done this myself just wondering can you stain ivory.
Regards
Ken

[Marc M.]

Originally Posted by Kmaddock

Nice enough job
But the fact the glue is wrong colour and the join is jagged it is about the best you were going to get away with.
The only way I would have done any better would be to just make the entire ring section/ un peen the tang and insert a new entire ring and bond to the remainder of the handle but this would have been very very invasive and not something I would willingly do.
Ivory would not match either, have you tried to stain the new ivory with something like tea or coffee, I have never done this myself just wondering can you stain ivory.
Regards
Ken

Hi Ken

It did crossed my mind to make a ring section, but as you said, too drastic.
I hoped that the joints would blend in more, as i filled the joints with ivory powder and glue. Result not so satisfactory. Tried with turmeric powder but wiped it off without results. Maybe i'll try with coffee or with tannin powder.

Best regards
Marc

[Richard G]

When it comes to staining the efficacy of common boot polish is often overlooked.
Regards
Richard