Iron Helmet

[Joe1475]

Hi,
I'm a new member but not exactly new to the forums. I would first like to say hello. I collect some weapons and armor and practice HEMA on occasion. I used to lean more towards firearms but have always had an affinity for swords. I purchased this helmet from an auction and have received several different versions of stories. So, I wanted to see what the members here can add.

Thank you in advance!

Joe

[fernando]

Welcome to the forum Joe; hope you enjoy being here .
Could you post other pictures of your helmet ... in different positions ?

[Joe1475]

I will try to post some better pictures later but here is another angle.

Thank you

[fernando]

Missed ?

[Joe1475]

[fernando]

Upright now .


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[fernando]

Both .


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[fernando]

So ... Gentlemen; no comments ?

[francantolin]

Originally Posted by Joe1475

Hello,
Rivets seems really new, so ,
is all the helmet newly made and then artificially aged...
Have you a picture of the inside of the helmet/ the nails..

[Raf]

Originally Posted by francantolin

Hello,
Rivets seems really new, so ,
is all the helmet newly made and then artificially aged...
Have you a picture of the inside of the helmet/ the nails..

Agreed. Assembled fairly recently from old already rusted scrap steel using modern rivets and hinges. What did the auction describe it as ?

[Kmaddock]

Hi Joe,
Welcome to the forum.
Pictures of the inside of the helmet and the rivets especially would tell a lot.
Could you please put these up when you have a chance.
Regards,
Ken

[Joe1475]

Sorry, have been busy. The auction listed it as Iron helmet 8-11 Cent AD. It was purchased in Germany.

[cel7]

Originally Posted by Joe1475

Sorry, have been busy. The auction listed it as Iron helmet 8-11 Cent AD. It was purchased in Germany.

To me, the modern hinges are a clear indication that it is a copy that has been artificially aged.

[Raf]

Originally Posted by Joe1475

Sorry, have been busy. The auction listed it as Iron helmet 8-11 Cent AD. It was purchased in Germany.

I'm surprised that the auction described it as such. Given that if genuine it would be a very rare and expensive thing. For comparison the Yarm helmet . UK.A river find in the 1950s , Doubts were initially raised about its authenticity due to its rather crude construction and its suspicious resemblance to a well documented German example. Now accepted as genuine. The material is wrought iron with a phosphorus content . 1 to 2 mm thick. Note the flat head rivets.

[Joe1475]

The only thing I've found, touted to be original that resembles the construction and condition from around the same period is this one.

[Raf]

Here is another version with the same problematic rivets . For comparison something similar from Brooklyn Museum. Egypt 7 - 8 century.

[fernando]

And here is an example dated from the 12th. century, attributed to a German crusader, fallen in the siege of Lisbon. No hinges in this one.


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[C4RL]

Is the hinge brass? An image of the hinge from inside would be nice, just out of interest.

[toaster5sqn]

The supposedly genuine similar example shown by Joel1475 has the cheek pieces pointing towards the neck guard?!! Definitely not suspicious at all, right?

Robert

[cel7]

Originally Posted by Joe1475

The only thing I've found, touted to be original that resembles the construction and condition from around the same period is this one.

According to literature, the model is called a "spangen" helmet and they were already popular in Roman times. The photo shown here comes from the website below.

https://www.thecollector.com/ancient...aracteristics/

The hinges of the cheek plates still seem too modern to me, but I give them the benefit of doubt. What strikes me is the even thickness of the cheek plates. The parts of a helmet were hammered at the time, but these look so perfect, no hammer marks. They look cut out.

[Raf]

Originally Posted by cel7

According to literature, the model is called a "spangen" helmet and they were already popular in Roman times. The photo shown here comes from the website below.

https://www.thecollector.com/ancient...aracteristics/

The hinges of the cheek plates still seem too modern to me, but I give them the benefit of doubt. What strikes me is the even thickness of the cheek plates. The parts of a helmet were hammered at the time, but these look so perfect, no hammer marks. They look cut out.

Read the small print . 'Via Apollo Galleries' Now search Apollo Galleries reviews and scroll down to Reddit.

[Joe1475]

Originally Posted by toaster5sqn

The supposedly genuine similar example shown by Joel1475 has the cheek pieces pointing towards the neck guard?!! Definitely not suspicious at all, right?

Robert

I thought the same thing the first time I saw it but then it appears that the neck guard may be a brim.

[Raf]

Originally Posted by Joe1475

I thought the same thing the first time I saw it but then it appears that the neck guard may be a brim.

I think we can assume this was intended as a neck guard.

[Radboud]

Originally Posted by Raf

Read the small print . 'Via Apollo Galleries' Now search Apollo Galleries reviews and scroll down to Reddit.

That pretty much guarantees the helmet’s a fake.