Kalis / Kris / Keris Sundang / Solot / Sulok / Suluk: - Page 2

Battara · 19th June 2018, 11:55 PM

Don't know if this helps, but in Tagalog "manok/manuk" refers to the chicken. "Sari" has various usages depending upon context, but it generally means something like "various". In this context could be be like "fantastic" chicken or bird.

A. G. Maisey · 20th June 2018, 12:30 AM

Jose, if the people who own this little piece of culture are anything like a number of other cultures in SE Asia, just maybe this "fantastic bird" --- or whatever --- does not really refer to any sort of bird at all, it might mean, or refer to something that is completely hidden from all but the people who were entitled to hold that knowledge.

Consider the position of birds in general, and some birds in particular in the belief systems of peoples indigenous to Maritime SE Asia.

Ian · 20th June 2018, 04:58 AM

Rather than turn this thread into another sarimanok discussion, I'm going to bring Ron's original thread on that subject back and add some new information that seems to support his idea.

Ian.

Amuk Murugul · 19th July 2018, 06:43 AM

Hullo everybody!

Some examples from the Pralamba sub-group merely to share.

Kalis Baladaw Piliang PraLamba:

1.
Blade: LxOALxWxT=50x65x12.56x1.30cm.
Handle: Ivory saboeng; grip of white-metal rings w/ widjaja motif.
Wt: 760g.

2.
Blade: LxOALxWxT=49x61x10.52x1.10cm.
Handle: Ivory pommel w/ widjaja motif on white-metal grip; twin-katig.
Wt: 595g.

3.
Blade: LxOALxWxT=40.5x53.0x9.72x0.87cm.
Handle: Ivory kapoejoeh, grip w/ white-metal bands and twine.
Wt: 379g.

Best,

Ian · 19th July 2018, 03:36 PM

Amuk:

Who are the Pralamba sub-group?

Ian.

David · 20th July 2018, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Amuk:

Who are the Pralamba sub-group?

Ian, i only know Pralamba as a Hindu term.
Pralamba was an asura killed by Krishna.
I cannot see any connection to a Moro kris from that definition.

Amuk Murugul · 6th July 2021, 10:45 PM

Hullo Everybody!

Just to share.
Each bought for a mere pittance.
Kalis Dapaw Banasi (left) was totally covered in rust. Had to disassemble and clean (No sign of break on trunk; either original or smoothed by a previous user).
Kalis Dasag Piliang (right) was under-appreciated. Cleaning revealed its true colours (twist-core).

Best,

Battara · 7th July 2021, 12:53 AM

Is your terminology Indonesian?

Amuk Murugul · 7th July 2021, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Is your terminology Indonesian?

Hi Battara,
In answer to your question, the terminolgy is not Indo. Language used is that of the area (Brunei, Sulu, Cebu, etc., although rather archaic).
Best,

Amuk Murugul · 4th June 2023, 03:16 AM

Hullo everybody!

Just dropping in this illustration.
My apologies should anyone find it rather esoteric; but it is basic, “generic”, and complies with the relevant “cosmology”.
It has stood me in good stead these past decades.
Hope it’s of some use.

Best,

Amuk Murugul · 15th June 2023, 03:00 AM

Hullo everybody!

This type has been previously discussed at various times in this room, so I'll merely drop in this photo.
Enjoy!

Best,

Amuk Murugul · 15th August 2023, 11:42 AM

Hullo everybody!

Hope it's of some use.
Enjoy!

Best,

Amuk Murugul · 31st December 2023, 12:57 AM

Hullo everybody!

This lot has been dealt with before.
As it is departing (with the prodigal) for parts unknown, I thought here was the appropriate place to park it (with latest update) for posterity.

Best,

1.
Name: Panglima OKK Setia Pahlawan Awang Kasim bin Ahmad Koejoh bin Al Akbar Tatar (Muhd. Sjah)
Desc: 9Sikoe Ngganja Hiras
Tags: Bisaya , Filipino , Keris , Kris , Kriss , Moro , Panay , Philippines , Sundang , Visaya
Char: Kembang katjang , Koekoedoeng , Makoeta , Djalwan , Djanoer , Oepih , Tjoetjoek ngaréndéng
Blade: LxOALxWxT= 52x64x10.48x1.00 cm. ; tapered rectangular boengboeng ; ngganja Hiras.
Wt: 366g.
Handle: Wood , kapoejoeh salot (missing head) , hoeloe w/ ‘daisy-chain’ motif and ring of petals , metal sampak.
Sheath: Wood.

2.
Name: Panglima Awang Al Aboe bin Ahmad Koejoh bin Al Akbar Tatar (Muhd. Sjah)
Desc: Naga 9Sikoe Ngganja Hiras
Tags: Bisaya , Filipino , Keris , Kris , Kriss , Moro , Panay , Philippines , Sundang , Visaya
Char: Kembang katjang , Koekoedoeng , Makoeta , Djalwan , Djanoer , Oepih , Tjoetjoek ngaréndéng , Naga
Blade: LxOALxWxT=50x63x11.15x1.49cm. ; ngganja hiras ; frontal katik.
Handle: Wood , kapoejoeh salot (missing head) , hoeloe w/ ‘daisy-chain’ motif and ring of petals , metal fittings ; braided hair attaching katik to hoeloe
Wt:755g.
Sheath:

3.
Name: Kadjajaan Pahlawan (Mapun , Cagayancillo , Palawan)
Desc: Naga 9Sikoe Ngganja Hiras
Tags: Bisaya , Filipino , Keris , Kris , Kriss , Moro , Panay , Philippines , Sundang , Visaya
Char: Kembang katjang , Koekoedoeng , Makoeta , Djalwan , Djanoer , Oepih , Tjoetjoek ngaréndéng , Naga
Blade: LxOALxWxT=47.5x55.0x10.53x1.36cm. ; ngganja hiras ; boengboeng rectangular & tapered to a point
Wt: 545g.
Handle: -
Sheath: Wood

4.
Name: Panglima Awang Silap Ul Aboe
Desc: Naga 13Sikoe
Tags: Bisaya , Filipino , Keris , Kris , Kriss , Moro , Panay , Philippines , Sundang , Visaya
Char: Kembang katjang , Koekoedoeng , Makoeta , Djalwan , Djanoer , Oepih , Tjoetjoek ngaréndéng , Naga
Blade: LxOALxWxT=47.5x61x9.82x1.69cm. ; rounded goetlab corner ; frontal katik
Handle: Wood , w/ daisy-chain motif ; kapoejoeh salot ; w/metal ftgs & braided wire-to-katik
Wt: 567g.
Sheath: Wood w/ horn djoengan , 5 tortoise-shell bands , leather frog , metal toe

5.
Name: Noesa Bisaja (Poelo Matamata , Mactan)
Desc: Naga 11Sikoe
Tags: Bisaya , Filipino , Keris , Kris , Kriss , Moro , Panay , Philippines , Sundang , Visaya
Char: Kembang katjang , Koekoedoeng , Makoeta , Djalwan , Djanoer , Oepih , Tjoetjoek ngaréndéng , Naga
Blade: LxOALxWxT= 61x75x11.33x1.22cm. ; vegetal carving along spine ; sharp angle on goetlab corner ; frontal katik
Handle: Wood w/ kapoejoeh salot ; braided wire-to-katik
Wt: 932g.
Sheath: Wood djoengan

Amuk Murugul · 12th February 2024, 10:51 PM

Hullo everybody!

Following, is the appendix to my last post. It should go together by way of explanation. It may enlighten (or NOT

).

Best,

Derived from Bisaya Carita Kalamanten(Dreamtime):

~1250: Aliku forced the Bisaya to emigrate, under the leadership of “The Ten Datus”. One of the Datus subsequently returned to vanquish the Aliku and establish a Bisaya realm.

-1363: Baruné (I)(Buni/Boni): Ruler Awang Al Akbar Tatar (bin Bonian Mas Kayangan) becomes Muslim with title: Sultan Muhammad Shah, seated at Kota Klias.

-1369: Muh. Shah founds and moves to Baruné (II) and becomes its first Sultan, leaving his eldest son Sultan Awang Kuyoh to govern Baruné I (Baruné Klias). Awang Kuyoh had two sons, Panglima OrangKayaKaya Pahlawan Awang Kasim and Panglima Awang Al Abu.

-1370: Sultan Kuyoh and his wife were abducted by the Lupah Sug during a surprise attack. Kuyoh managed to escape but perished, while his wife was borne to Lupah Sug.
This incident infuriated Kuyoh’s sons.
With his older brother’s permission, Panglima Awang Al Abu gathered a force and attacked Lupah Sug, razing it.
To ensure that Baruné would never suffer another surprise attack, on the return journey, Al Abu left a contingent of men on islands he named Kajayaan(I)(CagayanDeSulu/Mapun) and Kajayaan (II) (Cagayan/Cagayancillo) (in honour of their victory), to act as forward monitoring posts.
Al Abu returned to the island where he had marshalled and trained his invasion force. He resolved to make it a bastion against piracy and the kingdom's military headquarters, naming it Pahlawan, in honour of his men.

~1480: birth of Panglima Awang Silap Ul Abu.

-1519: Sultan Bolkiah commissions Silap Ul Abu to monitor the activities of the Europeans who would be entering the realm from the east , as well as to bring troublesome Rajah Humabon to heel. On arrival in the area, Ul Abu sets up base on an island he named ‘Bisaya’ (Bulaia/Matamata/Mactan).

- 1521: Silap Ul Abu kills Magalhaes
Returns to Baruné. His replacement, en route to Pahlawan, is stopped by remnant of Magalhaes expedition and then released.

19th July 2018, 06:43 AM	#34
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 460	Kalis Pralamba Hullo everybody! Some examples from the Pralamba sub-group merely to share. Kalis Baladaw Piliang PraLamba: 1. Blade: LxOALxWxT=50x65x12.56x1.30cm. Handle: Ivory saboeng; grip of white-metal rings w/ widjaja motif. Wt: 760g. 2. Blade: LxOALxWxT=49x61x10.52x1.10cm. Handle: Ivory pommel w/ widjaja motif on white-metal grip; twin-katig. Wt: 595g. 3. Blade: LxOALxWxT=40.5x53.0x9.72x0.87cm. Handle: Ivory kapoejoeh, grip w/ white-metal bands and twine. Wt: 379g. Best, Attached Images

6th July 2021, 10:45 PM	#37
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 460	Resurrected Rarities Hullo Everybody! Just to share. Each bought for a mere pittance. Kalis Dapaw Banasi (left) was totally covered in rust. Had to disassemble and clean (No sign of break on trunk; either original or smoothed by a previous user). Kalis Dasag Piliang (right) was under-appreciated. Cleaning revealed its true colours (twist-core). Best, Attached Images Last edited by Amuk Murugul; 6th July 2021 at 11:23 PM. Reason: spelling correction

4th June 2023, 03:16 AM	#40
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 460	NOMENCLATURE Hullo everybody! Just dropping in this illustration. My apologies should anyone find it rather esoteric; but it is basic, “generic”, and complies with the relevant “cosmology”. It has stood me in good stead these past decades. Hope it’s of some use. Best, Attached Images

15th June 2023, 03:00 AM	#41
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 460	Ceremonial Pieces Hullo everybody! This type has been previously discussed at various times in this room, so I'll merely drop in this photo. Enjoy! Best, Attached Images

15th August 2023, 11:42 AM	#42
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 460	Just another memory aid ..... Hullo everybody! Hope it's of some use. Enjoy! Best, Attached Images

19th June 2018, 11:55 PM	#31
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Don't know if this helps, but in Tagalog "manok/manuk" refers to the chicken. "Sari" has various usages depending upon context, but it generally means something like "various". In this context could be be like "fantastic" chicken or bird.

20th June 2018, 12:30 AM	#32
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,888	Jose, if the people who own this little piece of culture are anything like a number of other cultures in SE Asia, just maybe this "fantastic bird" --- or whatever --- does not really refer to any sort of bird at all, it might mean, or refer to something that is completely hidden from all but the people who were entitled to hold that knowledge. Consider the position of birds in general, and some birds in particular in the belief systems of peoples indigenous to Maritime SE Asia.

20th June 2018, 04:58 AM	#33
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,197	Rather than turn this thread into another sarimanok discussion, I'm going to bring Ron's original thread on that subject back and add some new information that seems to support his idea. Ian.

19th July 2018, 03:36 PM	#35
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,197	Amuk: Who are the Pralamba sub-group? Ian.

7th July 2021, 12:53 AM	#38
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Is your terminology Indonesian?

31st December 2023, 12:57 AM	#43
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 460	Keris Soendang Bisaja Hullo everybody! This lot has been dealt with before. As it is departing (with the prodigal) for parts unknown, I thought here was the appropriate place to park it (with latest update) for posterity. Best, 1. Name: Panglima OKK Setia Pahlawan Awang Kasim bin Ahmad Koejoh bin Al Akbar Tatar (Muhd. Sjah) Desc: 9Sikoe Ngganja Hiras Tags: Bisaya , Filipino , Keris , Kris , Kriss , Moro , Panay , Philippines , Sundang , Visaya Char: Kembang katjang , Koekoedoeng , Makoeta , Djalwan , Djanoer , Oepih , Tjoetjoek ngaréndéng Blade: LxOALxWxT= 52x64x10.48x1.00 cm. ; tapered rectangular boengboeng ; ngganja Hiras. Wt: 366g. Handle: Wood , kapoejoeh salot (missing head) , hoeloe w/ ‘daisy-chain’ motif and ring of petals , metal sampak. Sheath: Wood. 2. Name: Panglima Awang Al Aboe bin Ahmad Koejoh bin Al Akbar Tatar (Muhd. Sjah) Desc: Naga 9Sikoe Ngganja Hiras Tags: Bisaya , Filipino , Keris , Kris , Kriss , Moro , Panay , Philippines , Sundang , Visaya Char: Kembang katjang , Koekoedoeng , Makoeta , Djalwan , Djanoer , Oepih , Tjoetjoek ngaréndéng , Naga Blade: LxOALxWxT=50x63x11.15x1.49cm. ; ngganja hiras ; frontal katik. Handle: Wood , kapoejoeh salot (missing head) , hoeloe w/ ‘daisy-chain’ motif and ring of petals , metal fittings ; braided hair attaching katik to hoeloe Wt:755g. Sheath: 3. Name: Kadjajaan Pahlawan (Mapun , Cagayancillo , Palawan) Desc: Naga 9Sikoe Ngganja Hiras Tags: Bisaya , Filipino , Keris , Kris , Kriss , Moro , Panay , Philippines , Sundang , Visaya Char: Kembang katjang , Koekoedoeng , Makoeta , Djalwan , Djanoer , Oepih , Tjoetjoek ngaréndéng , Naga Blade: LxOALxWxT=47.5x55.0x10.53x1.36cm. ; ngganja hiras ; boengboeng rectangular & tapered to a point Wt: 545g. Handle: - Sheath: Wood 4. Name: Panglima Awang Silap Ul Aboe Desc: Naga 13Sikoe Tags: Bisaya , Filipino , Keris , Kris , Kriss , Moro , Panay , Philippines , Sundang , Visaya Char: Kembang katjang , Koekoedoeng , Makoeta , Djalwan , Djanoer , Oepih , Tjoetjoek ngaréndéng , Naga Blade: LxOALxWxT=47.5x61x9.82x1.69cm. ; rounded goetlab corner ; frontal katik Handle: Wood , w/ daisy-chain motif ; kapoejoeh salot ; w/metal ftgs & braided wire-to-katik Wt: 567g. Sheath: Wood w/ horn djoengan , 5 tortoise-shell bands , leather frog , metal toe 5. Name: Noesa Bisaja (Poelo Matamata , Mactan) Desc: Naga 11Sikoe Tags: Bisaya , Filipino , Keris , Kris , Kriss , Moro , Panay , Philippines , Sundang , Visaya Char: Kembang katjang , Koekoedoeng , Makoeta , Djalwan , Djanoer , Oepih , Tjoetjoek ngaréndéng , Naga Blade: LxOALxWxT= 61x75x11.33x1.22cm. ; vegetal carving along spine ; sharp angle on goetlab corner ; frontal katik Handle: Wood w/ kapoejoeh salot ; braided wire-to-katik Wt: 932g. Sheath: Wood djoengan Attached Images

12th February 2024, 10:51 PM	#44
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 460	Appendix to last post Hullo everybody! Following, is the appendix to my last post. It should go together by way of explanation. It may enlighten (or NOT ). Best, Derived from Bisaya Carita Kalamanten(Dreamtime): ~1250: Aliku forced the Bisaya to emigrate, under the leadership of “The Ten Datus”. One of the Datus subsequently returned to vanquish the Aliku and establish a Bisaya realm. -1363: Baruné (I)(Buni/Boni): Ruler Awang Al Akbar Tatar (bin Bonian Mas Kayangan) becomes Muslim with title: Sultan Muhammad Shah, seated at Kota Klias. -1369: Muh. Shah founds and moves to Baruné (II) and becomes its first Sultan, leaving his eldest son Sultan Awang Kuyoh to govern Baruné I (Baruné Klias). Awang Kuyoh had two sons, Panglima OrangKayaKaya Pahlawan Awang Kasim and Panglima Awang Al Abu. -1370: Sultan Kuyoh and his wife were abducted by the Lupah Sug during a surprise attack. Kuyoh managed to escape but perished, while his wife was borne to Lupah Sug. This incident infuriated Kuyoh’s sons. With his older brother’s permission, Panglima Awang Al Abu gathered a force and attacked Lupah Sug, razing it. To ensure that Baruné would never suffer another surprise attack, on the return journey, Al Abu left a contingent of men on islands he named Kajayaan(I)(CagayanDeSulu/Mapun) and Kajayaan (II) (Cagayan/Cagayancillo) (in honour of their victory), to act as forward monitoring posts. Al Abu returned to the island where he had marshalled and trained his invasion force. He resolved to make it a bastion against piracy and the kingdom's military headquarters, naming it Pahlawan, in honour of his men. ~1480: birth of Panglima Awang Silap Ul Abu. -1519: Sultan Bolkiah commissions Silap Ul Abu to monitor the activities of the Europeans who would be entering the realm from the east , as well as to bring troublesome Rajah Humabon to heel. On arrival in the area, Ul Abu sets up base on an island he named ‘Bisaya’ (Bulaia/Matamata/Mactan). - 1521: Silap Ul Abu kills Magalhaes Returns to Baruné. His replacement, en route to Pahlawan, is stopped by remnant of Magalhaes expedition and then released. Last edited by Amuk Murugul; 13th February 2024 at 01:34 AM. Reason: spelling correction