Curious cuirass

[cel7]

I have here the breastplate of a Bavarian or Prussian cuirass M1842 or 1845 I believe. Nothing special, I see them often. However, this one has something strange, the right shoulder piece is considerably narrower than the one for the left shoulder. This is certainly not standard, it has been adjusted afterwards. You can still see where they hammered the edge into shape and even a stress crack. The only reason I can think of for this is that the user was right-handed and found it helpful if he had a little more room to swing his weapon. Has anyone ever seen anything like this with standard cuirasses?

[kronckew]

The ding in the centre musta been a bit uncomfortable.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by cel7

... The only reason I can think of for this is that the user was right-handed and found it helpful if he had a little more room to swing his weapon...

Could be ... and should be, until a better diagnosis comes up.
On the other hand, that indentation in the center of the chest could be someone's later invention. Besides being so 'precisely' located, i wonder whether this shot test was still a procedure by the 19th. century.

[cel7]

Originally Posted by fernando

Could be ... and should be, until a better diagnosis comes up.
On the other hand, that indentation in the center of the chest could be someone's later invention. Besides being so 'precisely' located, i wonder whether this shot test was still a procedure by the 19th. century.

yes it was. I don't understand the point of it either, but the "German" cuirasses seem to have it all. More or less in the same place.

[Victrix]

Originally Posted by cel7

yes it was. I don't understand the point of it either, but the "German" cuirasses seem to have it all. More or less in the same place.

Same with the Swedish ones. Mine is end 17thC-beginning/18thC Carolingean era cavalry breast plate. Maybe the Swedes and the Germans took the term “bullet proof” just literally. In Sweden this was an official requirement to demonstrate the effectiveness of the kit. On the inside it’s marked with a crown and weight. There’s a small smith’s mark in the centre just below the collar. It’s very heavy at around 7kg.

[cel7]

Originally Posted by Victrix

Same with the Swedish ones. Mine is end 17thC-beginning/18thC Carolingean era cavalry breast plate. Maybe the Swedes and the Germans took the term “bullet proof” just literally. In Sweden this was an official requirement to demonstrate the effectiveness of the kit. On the inside it’s marked with a crown and weight. There’s a small smith’s mark in the centre just below the collar. It’s very heavy at around 7kg.

That's a very nice cuirass you have there!

[fernando]

Yes, a rather impressive example indeed. Vitrix, allow me to repost your picture in the upright position. Amazing how i was more used to see these shot strikes looking so deepening, and in your example its outline looks so shallow and circumscript, so to say ... even with inscriptions inserted. New to me, but no wonder; my experience with these is so scarce.


´.

[Victrix]

Originally Posted by fernando

Yes, a rather impressive example indeed. Vitrix, allow me to repost your picture in the upright position. Amazing how i was more used to see these shot strikes looking so deepening, and in your example its outline looks so shallow and circumscript, so to say ... even with inscriptions inserted. New to me, but no wonder; my experience with these is so scarce.


´.

Many thanks for rotating the picture Fernando! It was shot with a musket lead bullet which flattens on impact (muskets had fairly short range as well in those days). The breast plates were worn over tough buff coats made from moose skin. I understand the breast plates were unpopular due to their weight @7Kg! I took this picture in the Summer when I visited the city of Lund which was the scene of the bloodiest battle on Swedish soil when the Danes tried to re-take the Southern Swedish region of Skåne (Lat. Scania). The shoulder strap is to hang the cavalry carbine on.

[Victrix]

Originally Posted by cel7

That's a very nice cuirass you have there!

Thank you! Yours is nice too. Maybe it belonged to Kaiser Wilhelm? I understand he had something wrong with his arm.

[Akanthus]

Originally Posted by Victrix

Thank you! Yours is nice too. Maybe it belonged to Kaiser Wilhelm? I understand he had something wrong with his arm.

Was his left arm....

[Victrix]

Originally Posted by Akanthus

Was his left arm....

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Victrix

Thank you! Yours is nice too. Maybe it belonged to Kaiser Wilhelm? I understand he had something wrong with his arm.

Yes, this would make cel7 assumption plausible; if it wasn't for the fact that the Kaiser with the uselless left arm was Wilhem the second (1859/1941), Emperor since 1888; a bit too late for the use of a cuirass, and as he isn't recorded to have engaged in combat episodes... i think. If he used one for parade events, i would realize that an Emperor's cerimony cuirass would have a rather more embellished aspect.



.

[fernando]

Gentlemen, don't tie me to the whipping post. I just saw an oil painting by Paul Beckert (1890) of Kaiser Willem II wearing a breast plate... posing for the artist; his left hand resting on his waist.


.

[Akanthus]

Originally Posted by fernando

Gentlemen, don't tie me to the whipping post. I just saw an oil painting by Paul Beckert (1890) of Kaiser Willem II wearing a breast plate... posing for the artist; his left hand resting on his waist.


.

Yes,Fernando .This cuirass is much more elegant than the ones of the common soldiers.It's the uniform of the Garde du Corps,the first and finest cuirassier regiment in Prussia at this time.Look at the eagle helmet.

[Victrix]

Originally Posted by Victrix

Many thanks for rotating the picture Fernando! It was shot with a musket lead bullet which flattens on impact (muskets had fairly short range as well in those days). The breast plates were worn over tough buff coats made from moose skin. I understand the breast plates were unpopular due to their weight @7Kg! I took this picture in the Summer when I visited the city of Lund which was the scene of the bloodiest battle on Swedish soil when the Danes tried to re-take the Southern Swedish region of Skåne (Lat. Scania). The shoulder strap is to hang the cavalry carbine on.

The Royal Swedish Life Guard still uses the 17thC breastplates for ceremonial duty like today on the occasion of H.M. the King’s 50th year anniversary on the throne.

Back in the day these soldiers formed the king’s closest body guard in battle. They were all hand-picked officers with outstanding battle merits who served as privates in the unit. Although cavalry, they are dismounted when on ceremonial duty and characteristically stamp their heavy cavalry boots in unison when they march which causes quite a noise.

[Richard G]

Originally Posted by cel7

I have here the breastplate of a Bavarian or Prussian cuirass M1842 or 1845 I believe. Nothing special, I see them often. However, this one has something strange, the right shoulder piece is considerably narrower than the one for the left shoulder. This is certainly not standard, it has been adjusted afterwards. You can still see where they hammered the edge into shape and even a stress crack. The only reason I can think of for this is that the user was right-handed and found it helpful if he had a little more room to swing his weapon. Has anyone ever seen anything like this with standard cuirasses?

I wonder if it was to help out someone who was expected to keep their right arm permanently or semi-permanently raised. a flag or standard bearer, trumpeter, or something like that.
Best wishes
Richard