Java dress questions and translation

[Gavin Nugent]

I've been waiting for this to arrive for many months now and I finally have it in hand to provide images and ask questions.

YES, the hulu is reversed... it is set fast.

1/ Is the hulu Deder Yogyakarta?
2/ Is the timber Timoho?
3/ The Warangka seems a little broader than most at 6cms... it this typical or denote anything?
4/ Can anyone offer insights or translation to the inked characters to the side of the Warangka?
5/ Are there any determining factors in the images presented which could be indicative of a safe estimated age range for the dress?

Any other insights welcome.

Gavin

EDIT' Mods, can you please rotate images, they were in the correct orientation on my PC.

[A. G. Maisey]

Based upon what I believe I can see, this hilt & wrongko looks like East Jawa, maybe East of North Coast through to East Jawa and maybe including Madura.

The wood might be timoho, it is certainly pelet.

Wrongko looks true to type, from the pics there does not seem to be anything unusual about it. A full length shot would help, but from what I can see the wrongko looks to be kagok capu, this form is found in Surakarta, but more commonly in Madura & East Jawa.


The hilt looks a bit like a Jogja narada kandha, but it appears to be too robust for this, the hilt style tends to Balinese bebondolan, but is too small for that.In my opinion, East Jawa. Mendak is North Coast through to East Jawa & Madura.

I cannot read the text.

For me, absolutely impossible to give an age assessment on dress that I could rationally defend, but if you'll settle for a rough guess:- pre-WWII.

I really do need to see the blade to have a halfway decent idea of what we're dealing with.

[kai]

Hello Gavin,

Can anyone offer insights or translation to the inked characters to the side of the Warangka?

I'd guess at Japanese script from WWII...

Regards,
Kai

[Sajen]

Hello Gav,

Like Alan I would place the scabbard and hilt to East Java. And pictures from the complete keris and the blade would be very helpful.

Regards,
Detlef

[David]

I think pre-WWII is a safe bet. But it could, of course, be older.
I would also place this as East Jawa. Though not a deciding factor, the mendak style is also East Jawa.
I realize your questions right now are about the sheath, but will you show the blade as well?

[Gavin Nugent]

Thanks gents.

My query was only on the dress because it has a non Java blade within and that I found the hulu particularly interesting to me.

[A. G. Maisey]

If non-Jowo Gavin, what is it?

A keris complete can sometimes tell a story, just looking at hats & coats tell us little about who wore them.

[Gavin Nugent]

It is a classic hexagonal cross sectioned Bugis blade Alan.

Looks like an old marriage, I cannot see evidence of modern tampering with the timbers, a perfectly snug fit. The inside of the wrongko retains old dry patina with a warm glossy patina over the lip where the blade has rested and moved in and out... old timber working reliefs within seem undisturbed.

[A. G. Maisey]

OK Gavin thanks.

This sort of thing is very often a keris that was used by a mercenary. Javanese rulers at all levels, as well as private businesses all used mercenaries from societies that understood combat, usually Madura, Bugis, Bali. Scabbards were frequently discarded before & during combat & replaced with whatever was handy later. The idea that everything --- blade, dress & etc --- must match is a nice one, but nobody ever told the people who actually used keris.

For a dress keris all components of the dress should be correctly mated, but even then, the keris in that beautifully mated dress will sometimes be from somewhere other than where the dress is from.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

OK Gavin thanks.

This sort of thing is very often a keris that was used by a mercenary. Javanese rulers at all levels, as well as private businesses all used mercenaries from societies that understood combat, usually Madura, Bugis, Bali. Scabbards were frequently discarded before & during combat & replaced with whatever was handy later. The idea that everything --- blade, dress & etc --- must match is a nice one, but nobody ever told the people who actually used keris.

For a dress keris all components of the dress should be correctly mated, but even then, the keris in that beautifully mated dress will sometimes be from somewhere other than where the dress is from.

Thank you Alan, that is some sensation insight I was not aware of.

Gavin

[A. G. Maisey]

Maybe this might be regarded as an example of something I've been preaching for close to 50 years:-

if one wishes to understand the keris, forget about studying keris books, rather, study sociology, anthropology, history, art, & language of the people concerned.

of course if one only wishes to collect keris, then study keris books instead

[Gavin Nugent]

Alan,

The subject is intriguing, and I present the blade for viewing.

This not the average Bugis man's keris. To my eye and hand it is expertly made.

The edges are some of the sharpest I've ever encountered and they are very clearly defined within a single row of twistcore that has been layered quite well.

It is thick, robust, weighty, but so elegantly balanced. It contains a "symmetry" of sorts (for want of a better word), within the asymmetrical blades that keris are.

If indeed it is an older marriage under the subject you have pursued, the blade may offer a better glimpse in to time.

Gavin

[David]

Love this blade! Thanks for showing it.
Any plans to try to loosen the adhesive fixing that hilt so that you turn it around?

[Sajen]

Beautiful blade! I personally would keep this keris like this but would try to turn the handle in the correct direction.

[A. G. Maisey]

Superb, the work of a master.

In respect of the hilt.

We're used to seeing keris hilts in an agreed orientation.

That agreement is something that is correct for dress and it suits well the rapier grip.

However, the most useful grip for close combat is the reverse grip, that is, the grip that was used on the Keris Buda. This grip allows immense power to be delivered to the point, and is ideal for a situation where combat has become something like cage fighting, but one hand has a sharp pointy thing in it.

In fact, with the reverse grip you have several blows available with a single hand, you can punch, you can use the pommel, & you can use the blade.

With the reverse grip on a dagger you need to be able to support the edge of your hand, on a keris, the gonjo provides this support when the reverse grip is used.

If this keris was mine, I would apply heat to the sorsoran --- a candle or small kerosene lamp will do it, but a heat gun with a small nozzle is cleaner --- and I would remove the hilt and check what adhesive has been used to glue the grip to the tang. If it is a modern adhesive, I'd put the hilt into the agreed "correct" position, if it is jabung, or some other native adhesive, I'd put the hilt back in place in its original position.

In removing the hilt I would proceed slowly and gently, the hilt might not move because of rust, the rust might have weakened the tang. We do not want to break that tang, so, slowly, gently, not too strong in the wrist.

[Gustav]

Yes, a gorgeous blade.

What is a bit unusual for a Sulawesi blade is the single twisted rod on a side. This actually could be the first such blade I see. Two rods on a side are much more common.

[kai]

Thanks, Gavin!

a single row of twistcore that has been layered quite well.

Could you please provide a pic from about the middle of this neat blade, too?

From the base of the blade, the pamor is tough to evaluate despite the very nice stacking.

Regards,
Kai

[Gustav]

Sorry Gavin, I didn't notice you already mentioned that.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Superb, the work of a master.

In respect of the hilt.

We're used to seeing keris hilts in an agreed orientation.

That agreement is something that is correct for dress and it suits well the rapier grip.

However, the most useful grip for close combat is the reverse grip, that is, the grip that was used on the Keris Buda. This grip allows immense power to be delivered to the point, and is ideal for a situation where combat has become something like cage fighting, but one hand has a sharp pointy thing in it.

In fact, with the reverse grip you have several blows available with a single hand, you can punch, you can use the pommel, & you can use the blade.

With the reverse grip on a dagger you need to be able to support the edge of your hand, on a keris, the gonjo provides this support when the reverse grip is used.

A learned friend within these pages has also made reference to this reverse grip where the larger Kris/Sundang are concerned and that it is a "lost" grip for what of a better word, and your notations Alan support this. I suspect "lost" due to gentry over taking society. Where these larger brothers are concerned, I call it the sabre grip.

If I am reading your notes correctly, with reference to the grip, is it still holding the blade it the tradition position/orientation though... please correct me if I am wrong, this is what I feel when reading and handling the keris of this nature.

What I have also proposed in past conversations about the Keris, is that when in this orientation, to easily flip the orientation of the blade 180 degrees which is to also have a very positive grip in and and the application becomes a sabre which to me is the last hack and slash do or die, gotta get sh#t done aspect of melee... and having the gonjo protrude beyond the knuckles, this supports a devastating punch in melee combat...

Gavin

[A. G. Maisey]

Hold your arm straight out in front of you.

make a fist.

turn your fist so that the clenched fingers of the right hand are oriented towards your left side.

now insert the hilt so that the point of the blade points to the ground.

this is what I call a reverse grip, others have different names for this grip.

At one time in Solo, during the 1970's, my neighbour had been a participant during the Merdeka activities, we had a few conversations on use of a knife as a weapon. Some of his comments were that in actual use as a weapon the knife can be held is a variety of orientations, depending upon the situation.

For close combat where the fight is more like a brawl than gentlemanly duelling, the reverse grip that I have described was the preferred grip.

[Gavin Nugent]

Thanks Alan, understood. It is a very strong grip that also prevents wrist locks in this manner of stand offs that you note.

I shall reference the grip I note as the sabre grip.

With reference to a hilt orientation like this keris and held like a sabre, do you feel there is validity to this?

I ask as the bugis tangs are robust, where if a Java blade, they tend to be longer and thinner in more modern periods, and would the Java keris suffer under this sabre method, as they are to my eye designed as the rapier application noted above.

It is all very interesting the art of one on one combat...

I digress but I recall a conversation had with a veteran special services chap many years ago, referencing several methods of holding a single edged knife, the tradition grip with the knife held in the fist upwards, being the easier to defend, the reverse grip which you note as being much harder to defend from and devastating when applied as it both slashes and stabs, but what struck me with immediate horror was his sharing of the person who holds the single edged knife like a table knife with the forefinger extended well over the spine of the blade... a fighters characteristic he referred to as experienced, evil and sadistic, a fighter who wants to toy with his enemy and break them down one cut at a time...

Gavin

[A. G. Maisey]

Gavin, since the middle of the 18th century, the keris in Jawa has been much like the small sword was in England & Europe, this from Raffles.

However, even through until today, high quality Jawa keris will have a very robust tang. The needle thin tang that we sometimes see on Jawa keris is usually a product of time & erosion, if we look at the place where the tang emerges from the gonjo, that will give a far better idea of the original thickness of the tang.

As for "playing with opponents", well, the gentleman to whom I referred in my previous post was rather scathing of the idea of fighting or duelling with a knife, he was of the opinion that if you needed to actually fight, it indicated that you had improperly prepared, firstly, no matter how good you might be, you would very likely get cut yourself, secondly, in his opinion, the well planned attack should see the end of any combat before it even started, ideally from behind, a single blow, or as you walk past, again, a single blow.

To that man, getting involved in actual fighting was amateurish & stupid, if you were a professional you did not give the opponent the opportunity to strike you, with knife, or with any other part of his body.

[Gavin Nugent]

Thank you Alan, I shall take a more thorough approach to viewing the pesi.

On the other matter.... that sounds a like more like assassination than war... such actions do lead to the later... I get both points though...

Gavin

[A. G. Maisey]

I rather doubt that the gentleman to whom I refer was involved in many, if any war-type situations. My landlady at that time told me he had had "special duties". In conversation he never really mentioned any sort of war or battlefield type of activity.