Interesting backsword with moon markings

werecow · 18th April 2023, 07:15 PM

I've been watching this saber hilted backsword that was on sale. I did not buy it (perhaps someone else here did? Sorry if I'm hijacking your sword! :oP) but I find it very interesting. The guard has some rather unusual features and it looks quite old (late 17th century maybe?). Since it's no longer listed I guess I can ask about it now.

Does anyone have any information on this (date, country of origin, etc)? I find the guard very interesting but I've never seen a sword quite like it.

Teisani · 18th April 2023, 09:38 PM

I'm not knowledgeable on these but I get no sabre vibes from that hilt. Some of the joints on the hilt appear welded. As in modern arc welded. The hilt proportions also look odd. My opinion... hilt is modern. The blade is probably a bit better looking, but from photos looks a bit thin at the base. I would expect at least 6.5 to 7mm at the base on a backsword. This looks thinner than that. Any idea on the distal taper?

toaster5sqn · 18th April 2023, 09:53 PM

Agree that the hilt looks modern, the rivet through the ricasso is definitely wrong. The blade could have come from a modern replica that has been rehilted as a home project, so I would see if any modern sword makers use that half moon symbol.

Robert

werecow · 19th April 2023, 01:34 AM

Thanks for your thoughts guys. Unfortunately I don't have any information on the distal taper and I have no other images on the sword.

But having now looked at some of the other items the same seller had on offer (probably should have done that before posting here), some of them also looked very odd. And the patina also looks weird, so I suspect you're correct and they were modern productions being sold as antiques. Shenanigans! Clearly I still have a lot to learn. Sorry for wasting your time!

fernando · 19th April 2023, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by werecow

... Clearly I still have a lot to learn. Sorry for wasting your time!..

No time waisted. That's what we are here for

.

urbanspaceman · 19th April 2023, 11:58 AM

Everything is a learning experience for some folk. Time is never wasted, except when threads are ignored.

werecow · 19th April 2023, 12:27 PM

True. At least I learned something (and am happy I did not invest in that sword

).

On a related note, I'm a big fan of the few youtube videos and blog/forum posts that have been made comparing fakes to real antiques. Highly educational.

urbanspaceman · 19th April 2023, 12:32 PM

This sounds interesting.
Would you post some urls please.

werecow · 19th April 2023, 02:06 PM

Sure! I'm not very organized so I have not saved everything, but here are a few, mostly from IPostSwords and a couple of one-offs (Pin & Swords seems promising as a channel that might do more of this though). For a novice like me they had some interesting tips:

Analysing an Artificially Aged "Medieval" Sword (IPostSwords)

FAKE "ANTIQUES": British 1796 Heavy Cavalry Swords (IPostSwords)

FAKE "ANTIQUES": French Marines Sabres. (IPostSwords)

Fake French Court Sword - Artificially Aged Replica (IPostSwords)

FAKE Flamberge Rapier on EBAY - $18,000! (IPostSwords)

FAKE "ANTIQUES": 1803 British Light Infantry Officers Sabres (IPostSwords)

A French Imperial Guard Infantry Officer Sabre (Pin & Swords)

2019 CNES les faux sabres du Premier Empire par Bertrand MALVAUX (Experts CNES)

FAKE Cutlass or Fake Sword, and/or REPRODUCTION Cutlass or Reproduction Sword of US Navy M1860 Naval Cutlass (the pirate's lair)

If anyone else has any others to add, please post them here!

urbanspaceman · 19th April 2023, 05:04 PM

Thank-you; very kind. I'll put in some time and study it all.

18th April 2023, 07:15 PM	#1
werecow Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Leiden, NL Posts: 491	Interesting backsword with moon markings I've been watching this saber hilted backsword that was on sale. I did not buy it (perhaps someone else here did? Sorry if I'm hijacking your sword! :oP) but I find it very interesting. The guard has some rather unusual features and it looks quite old (late 17th century maybe?). Since it's no longer listed I guess I can ask about it now. Does anyone have any information on this (date, country of origin, etc)? I find the guard very interesting but I've never seen a sword quite like it. Attached Images

19th April 2023, 11:58 AM	#6
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 530	no time lost Everything is a learning experience for some folk. Time is never wasted, except when threads are ignored.

19th April 2023, 12:32 PM	#8
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 530	Fakes on Youtube This sounds interesting. Would you post some urls please.

19th April 2023, 02:06 PM	#9
werecow Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Leiden, NL Posts: 491	Sure! I'm not very organized so I have not saved everything, but here are a few, mostly from IPostSwords and a couple of one-offs (Pin & Swords seems promising as a channel that might do more of this though). For a novice like me they had some interesting tips: Analysing an Artificially Aged "Medieval" Sword (IPostSwords) FAKE "ANTIQUES": British 1796 Heavy Cavalry Swords (IPostSwords) FAKE "ANTIQUES": French Marines Sabres. (IPostSwords) Fake French Court Sword - Artificially Aged Replica (IPostSwords) FAKE Flamberge Rapier on EBAY - $18,000! (IPostSwords) FAKE "ANTIQUES": 1803 British Light Infantry Officers Sabres (IPostSwords) A French Imperial Guard Infantry Officer Sabre (Pin & Swords) 2019 CNES les faux sabres du Premier Empire par Bertrand MALVAUX (Experts CNES) FAKE Cutlass or Fake Sword, and/or REPRODUCTION Cutlass or Reproduction Sword of US Navy M1860 Naval Cutlass (the pirate's lair) If anyone else has any others to add, please post them here! Last edited by werecow; 19th April 2023 at 03:40 PM.

19th April 2023, 05:04 PM	#10
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 530	Links Thank-you; very kind. I'll put in some time and study it all.

18th April 2023, 09:38 PM	#2
Teisani Member Join Date: Oct 2022 Location: Romania Posts: 314	I'm not knowledgeable on these but I get no sabre vibes from that hilt. Some of the joints on the hilt appear welded. As in modern arc welded. The hilt proportions also look odd. My opinion... hilt is modern. The blade is probably a bit better looking, but from photos looks a bit thin at the base. I would expect at least 6.5 to 7mm at the base on a backsword. This looks thinner than that. Any idea on the distal taper?

18th April 2023, 09:53 PM	#3
toaster5sqn Member Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: New Zealand Posts: 72	Agree that the hilt looks modern, the rivet through the ricasso is definitely wrong. The blade could have come from a modern replica that has been rehilted as a home project, so I would see if any modern sword makers use that half moon symbol. Robert

19th April 2023, 01:34 AM	#4
werecow Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Leiden, NL Posts: 491	Thanks for your thoughts guys. Unfortunately I don't have any information on the distal taper and I have no other images on the sword. But having now looked at some of the other items the same seller had on offer (probably should have done that before posting here), some of them also looked very odd. And the patina also looks weird, so I suspect you're correct and they were modern productions being sold as antiques. Shenanigans! Clearly I still have a lot to learn. Sorry for wasting your time!

19th April 2023, 12:27 PM	#7
werecow Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Leiden, NL Posts: 491	True. At least I learned something (and am happy I did not invest in that sword ). On a related note, I'm a big fan of the few youtube videos and blog/forum posts that have been made comparing fakes to real antiques. Highly educational.