Wallachian Swords of the 15th Century: What Types?

[Teisani]

Here's another example of the same depiction used for two different people, Bathory Istvan and False Dmitry I.

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki...33_-_1586).jpg

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki...ump-to-license

[Teisani]

This just gets weirder and weirder.

1 - two Michael the Brave portraits combined to give on Andrei Movilă/Andrzej Mohyła.
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki...i_Viteazul.jpg

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki...aiViteazul.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...rij_Mohyla.jpg

2 - how about this portrait of Bethlen Gabor (see attached picture), which is actually another portrait of Michael the Brave. Although this likely is a more modern mistaken identity.
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki..._Viteazul).png

[Teisani]

Last examples:

1 - Gabor Bethlen with and without hat.
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki...d_01_439_2.jpg
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki...d_01_437_2.jpg

2 - Bocskai István with and without sabre.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ay-istvan1.jpg
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki...re_bocskai.jpg

After seeing all of this, I now have a healthy dose of scepticism when looking at these old depictions.

[ariel]

Perhaps, the most informative source of old Hungarian swords is the so-called Kepes Kronica, " The illustrates chronic", a book written in ~1370 on the order of a Hungarian King Louis ( Lajos) I. It shows a variety of Hungarian armamentarium at that time: a co-existence of both European and Oriental swords.

The very first illustration shows the king sitting on the throne and surrounded by the local aristocracy. On his right side ( our left) are definitely European knights wearing typical European armour and carrying straight swords. Those are the European warriors serving him and coming from different Christian principalities including France: Louis I belonged to Angevine dynasty.

But on his left ( our right) are several swarthy, bearded and mustachioed individuals wearing long Oriental robes and carrying curved sabers. Those are the Cumans ( Quipchaks) who came to Hungary after 1237, escaping the onslaught of the Batu Khan’s Golden Horde on Eastern and Central Europe.

[ariel]

The army of Batu Khan reached the Adriatic Coast of the Balkans and their swords entered the local armamentariums.
Here are two frescoes from Serbian monasteries built in 1346 and 1347: St. Nikita in Gracanica monastery and St Mikhael in St. Demetrius monastery. Both are armed with typical nomadic sabers.

[Teisani]

Originally Posted by ariel

Perhaps, the most informative source of old Hungarian swords is the so-called Kepes Kronica...

Sabres
Yes, the Chronicon Pictum or Képes Krónika is an important source for East/Central European history. As you mentioned, in it, are depicted steppe people elements (Cumans) in this part of Europe. Interestingly the pommels have peen-blocks.

Here are the pages with sabres depicted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroni...trónon_(2).jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:K...B3maiakkal.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:A...C3%B3nika).jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:K...,_%C3%96rs.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bela_menekul.jpg

The sabres depicted match this type in my opinion http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...1&postcount=10. Except the one shown in the second link, which is a typical steppe sabre.
Although this discussion would be more relevant in this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=28312

==========================

Vlachs
Chronicon Pictum is also important for those interested for those in the history of Wallachia as the establishment is closelly linked to the battle of Posada in 1330.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:C...dai_csata1.JPG
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:K...9t_fogadja.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:V...cle_Posada.jpg

[Teisani]

Moldovan at the wedding procession of Sigismund III Vasa into Cracow in 1605. Depiction on the Stockholm Roll/Rolka sztokholmska/Polska rullen.
https://ro.pinterest.com/pin/543809723761525502/
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/C...en_-_81237.jpg

Personal notes:
1 - the clothes he is wearing are very close to those of Michael the Brave (1558-1601) and Ieremia Movilă (1555-1606). Especially the cap called gugiuman made of sable fur (Martes zibellina), with a white bottom (for the voivode/ruler and his sons) or with a red bottom (for the boyars). The hat pin (called a surguci) also matches Mihai and Ieremia's style. In fact, Movilă was a close ally of Poland-Lithuania at that time, and a rival of Michael the Brave. He is also wearing the same yellow boots that Movilă has, and that were so popular in the region. Vasile Lupu (1595-1661) ruler of Moldova and his son Ioan Lupu also have similar hats.
2 - he seems to have a koncerz/hegyestőr and a sabre, same as others depicted.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...miah_Grave.jpg
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/M...aiViteazul.jpg
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/M...ul_wiki_en.jpg
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/C...asile_Lupu.jpg
https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fi%C8%...23FBEC2C19.jpg

[Teisani]

Originally Posted by Teisani

2 - he seems to have a koncerz/hegyestőr and a sabre, same as others depicted.

Addendum: his (and others') koncerz/hegyestőr looks similar to these from the Magyar National Museum in Budapest:
http://www.museumap.hu/record/-/reco...ted-bib5837785
http://gepeskonyv.btk.elte.hu/adatok...sp_id=502.html
https://sites.google.com/site/hagyom...r-magyarorszag

[Evgeny_K]

Originally Posted by Teisani

The sabres depicted match this type in my opinion http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...1&postcount=10.

Very interesting, thank you!

[Teisani]

Originally Posted by Evgeny_K

Very interesting, thank you!

You're welcome. By the way, do you have any additional info for this sabre? Maybe some additional photos to share? It's a really nice specimen.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...2&postcount=15

[Evgeny_K]

Originally Posted by Teisani

You're welcome. By the way, do you have any additional info for this sabre? Maybe some additional photos to share? It's a really nice specimen.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...2&postcount=15

I can make some shots in a couple of days.
And if you're inetested here are some additional pics of the previous sword (after it was cleaned):
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=25450

[Teisani]

Originally Posted by Evgeny_K

...here are some additional pics of the previous sword (after it was cleaned)...

Thank you Evgeny, it's an interesting specimen, to say the least. I don't know much about these two-handed sabres, but I do have a couple of observations:

- the square-ish pommel and cross-guard are fairly similar to ones found on swords uncovered in the Carpatian basin and to the East of it (Moldova). As you mentioned this sabre was found near Moldova (see here http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...7&postcount=70).
- The sabres in the Chronicon Pictum are mostly depicted in the hands of magyars (conquest period) and cumans, so mostly E-Europe steppe nomads.
Remember that Moldova (pre-Mongol) invasion was politically part of Cumania. And the medieval state of Moldova started out in 1343 as a defence borderland (Marcă de graniţă/Grenzemark /Határőrgrófság) for the Kingdom of Hungary against the Tatars. The same Kingdom of Hungary depicted in the Chronicon Pictum, probaly done in the ~1370s (see Ariel's explanation here http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...6&postcount=94).
- The blade shape is interesting, the single fuller, the yelman, it could be considered just a variation on 15th century S-guard two-handed, Hungarian sabres. But I would argue that this could be a transitional form from the steppe sabre to the 14th century sabre. The single fuller isn't unheard of by that time, see the example here: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...16-12-29_p.jpg)

So one hypothesis is that it could be a 1300s-1400s sabre from Hungary/Transylvania/Moldova asociated with the Cumans in these regions.

[Teisani]

Originally Posted by Teisani

- The blade shape is interesting, the single fuller, the yelman, it could be considered just a variation on 15th century S-guard two-handed, Hungarian sabres. But I would argue that this could be a transitional form from the steppe sabre to the 14th century sabre. The single fuller isn't unheard of by that time, see the example here:

Ah yes, and here's a steppe nomad sabre with a single wide fuller and a yelman. So we can say that these features existed by that time.

[Evgeny_K]

Dear Teisani, thank you for very interesting hypothesis. So you think this sword is earlier than 15th century S-guard Hungarian sabres?

[Teisani]

Originally Posted by Evgeny_K

Dear Teisani, thank you for very interesting hypothesis. So you think this sword is earlier than 15th century S-guard Hungarian sabres?

My guess is that it could be from the mid 1300s to the mid 1400s, an archaic form of the more familiar S-quillon sabres. But this is just a guess based solely on my above stated arguments. Do you have any idea if it was found north or south of Moldova?

================================================== ======

By the way, do you know where this one was found? http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...2&postcount=15

[Teisani]

Oh, and a possible period depiction of a S-quilloned sabre can be found here:
https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File...Capistrano.jpg
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...t%C3%A1ban.jpg

L'Aquila, Museo Nationale, Maestro di San Giovanni da Capistrano (Giovanni di Bartolomeo dell’Aquila), cc.1480-1485.
The four side panels represent scenes of the saint's life [counter-clockwise]: in the upper left panel, Holy Mass celebrated on the battle field in the presence of the Crusaders below it, the Battle of Belgrade, where the Crusaders fought against the Turks in the top right panel, a sermon given by St. John in L'Aquila, during which some possessed people were healed. in the background is the Cathedral of St. Maximus, as it would appear before the catastrophic earthquake of 1703 that destroyed it almost completely. in the lower right panel, the death of the saint. The panel, dated between 1480 and 1485 (and then just thirty years after the death of the saint) was first attributed to Sebastiano di Cola from Casentino; later on, to a "Maestro delle Storie di S. Giovanni da Capestrano", who also authored "St. Francis Receiving the Stigmata", stored in the same room of the museum. According to the latest studies, this Maestro should be identified with Giovanni di Bartolomeo from Aquila, as recorded in Naples by a notary deed of June 1448: this painter shows a Gothic formation in his meticulous attention to detail, and a Renaissance influence in the use of perspective and volumes.

Siege of Belgrade 1456, depiction from 1480-85. The Ottomans are depicted as having S-quilloned sabres, though single-handed and without pommels.

[Reventlov]

Originally Posted by Teisani

Oh, and a possible period depiction of a S-quilloned sabre can be found here:

Very interesting and not one I have seen before. Thanks for sharing so much in this excellent thread!

There are a number of artworks from around 1470-1510, from Italy, Austria, Hungary, and Slovakia, that show very well this distinctive Southeastern-European style of hilt, mostly on straight-bladed swords. The Austrian image database is a good resource for this:

https://www.imareal.sbg.ac.at/en/realonline/

[Teisani]

Originally Posted by Reventlov

Very interesting and not one I have seen before. Thanks for sharing so much in this excellent thread
...

Glad you liked it, I found it by chance recently. If you have any other works of art in mind, please feel free to post them. Even though the topic is "Wallachian swords of the 15th century ", I believe it is important to understand what was available in geographically close regions, and even in other time periods to give context, especially considering the scarcity of period sources of on the actual topic. My only request is to post the source site for the picture/info if possible.

[Teisani]

Ok, back to Wallachian stuff. Here are some more pictures of the 2 pages (143 and 146) depicting the Battle of Posada 1330 from the Chronicon Pictum. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Battle1330.jpg
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...dai_csata1.JPG
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...dai_csata2.JPG
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:V...cle_Posada.jpg


Chronicon Pictum (Page 144) - King Charles receives the envoy of Voivode Basarab In the initial "N", on the left, the envoy hands over a letter from Voivode Basarab to King Charles Robert. The King is in armor, the envoy has a long hair, is in a long Cuman dress, with a helmet in his left hand.

Basarab sent honorable messengers to the king and said: "You have toiled, my lord the king, with gathering an army: for that I give seven thousand silver marks as compensation for your toil. I also hand over Szörény to you in peace with all the ingredients, which you captured by force; moreover, I will faithfully pay the tribute every year, which I owe to your crown, and I will also send one of my sons to your court, at your expense, with my money and expenses: just return in peace and do not put your men in danger, because if you come further, you will not avoid danger." Upon hearing this, the king with an arrogant mind said these words to the messengers: "Tell Basarab: he is the shepherd of my sheep; I will pull him out of his hiding place by his beard!"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroni...ét_fogadja.jpg

And one from Johannes de Thurocz's Chronica Hungarorum (1488)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:B...ungarorum).jpg
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...a_Thuroczy.jpg

Notes:
1 - according to wiki, the Chronicon Pictum was written between 15th of May 1358 and 1370-73. So the last pages, those depicting the Battle of Posada, where made during the early 1370s.
2 - most Wallachians are depicted as wearing sheep skin hats and coats, and having long dark hair. Othersare very Cuman-like in appearance, might actually be Cumans (like Basarab's envoy). Even the sheep-skin wearing individuals are using recurve bows.

[Teisani]

Originally Posted by Evgeny_K

...So you think this sword is earlier than 15th century S-guard Hungarian sabres?

I just noticed that almost all the swords and sabres depicted in the Chronicon Pictum have long handles, which makes me wonder just how accurate are these representations. Surely not all swords of that period where two-handed.

[Teisani]

Swords of Stephen III the Great/Ştefan al III-lea cel Mare of Moldova (born 1438-39, ruled 1457–1504).

A nice article by Radu Oltean can be found here: http://art-historia.blogspot.com/202...-istanbul.html

About the sword of Stephen in Istanbul

Some thoughts about the swords of "Stephen the Great" from Istanbul, after browsing the book by Mr. Andrei Adrian Rusu, "Stephan the Great and the Moldavians of his time". But also some personal opinions, settled over time.
The weapons used by Moldovans in the 15th century were overwhelmingly imported. The vast majority from the Saxon cities, Brașov, Sibiu, Bistrița. For these cities, the export of weapons to Moldova was one of the main sources of income. However, certain more special weapons were brought even further, from Germany or Italy. And not just weapons. The study of archaeological findings suggests that all the knives or razors discovered in archaeological excavations in Moldova are imported. It is estimated that over 50% of weaponry of any kind was imported, especially high-performance weapons involving special technology or steels. Also, much of the bows and arrows were imported from the Saxon cities. The few craftsmen from Moldova that we know about were all foreigners, such as the bow maker from Suceava, a Saxon (his tombstone was preserved).

But not only the weapons but also most of the tools were all brought from Transylvania: awls, saws, axes, beards, then locks, keys, hinges, etc. Moldova had no iron. Who would have made high-performance weapons in Moldova? Crossbows, swords of good steel...Not to mention chain mail. Moldova did not have cities like those in Transylvania or Poland where there were guilds producing metal objects, a metallurgical industry that required high technological knowledge. And guilds to qualify craftsmen to high standards.

Another important source of weapons was wars. Many other weapons were obtained as spoils from battles, kept in the lord's arsenal and later given to the "braves". However, it is very likely that there were numerous repair workshops in Moldova.

Swords were weapons that not everyone had access to. They were expensive weapons and (although apparently simple) difficult to produce. The steel had to be of good quality. The rarity of swords and swords from medieval Moldova is supported by both sources and archaeological discoveries. And all the few discovered are from before the era of Ștefan, these are swords from the end of the 14th century, the beginning of the 15th.

The swords of Istanbul are of German origin. There is an Ottoman inventory of the swords looted from Suceava by Suleiman the Magnificent which names them very clearly: "German swords, narrow swords, with a sharp point" (approximate translation from Turkish). Western specialists, emotionally and patriotically uninvolved (such as the British military historian David Nicolle) have opined that all the Istanbul swords come from the same source (as production) and are of a characteristic German type and only the knobs of two of them, one being the one with inscription, are local products, added in Moldova. David Nicolle is the first to suggest that the guns could have been imported in pieces (separate blade, separate guard, etc.) and assembled in a local workshop. The silver thread on the sword hilt with the inscribed button was also added locally.

All the Istanbul swords (there are 3) are the same length, suggesting that they belonged to the same person. A prince did not have "one sword" but most likely a group of identical weapons. When you ordered, you didn't order one, but 10. The three swords were, as a model, an outdated one for Stephen's era. It is true that on the button with Slavonic inscription a Ștefan, the "gospodar" (ruler) of Moldova is mentioned". But before Stephen the Great, there were two "masters" with the name Stephen, who could rather be the ones referred to by the inscription on the button.
Stephen I (1394-1399) and Stephen II (1433-1435/1442-1447). Stephen the Great is Stephen III. The swords were looted together with the entire royal treasury from Suceava Citadel by Suleiman the Magnificent during the campaign to punish Petru Rareș (1538).

Adrian Andrei Rusu suggests that the sources that mention "Moldovan" or "Wallachian" weapons refer to the hand of the one who used the weapon, not to the craftsman who made it.

In short. Swords were not made in Moldova. There could be workshops to adapt, complete, repair them. Specialized craftsmen who came to Moldova to "sharpen" weapons are attested from Brașov. So even the blade sharpeners were "imported". The swords in Istambul are produced in a German workshop sometime in the early 15th century. They most likely belonged to one of the two Ștefan lords who preceded "the Great".

[Teisani]

And few more photos:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...4&postcount=16
http://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.30137.html
https://sword-site.com/thread/769/sw...t-iii-moldavia

[Teisani]

Since I don't know much about medieval European swords, would like to ask fellow forum members, what is your opinion on the Moldovan swords at the Topkapi palace(posted earlier), what period, what type, what manufacture...?

[Teisani]

Tomb effigy of Wallachian boyar, Mateiaș Postelnicul died at the age of 17 in 1652 - son of Udriște Năsturel and Maria Corbeanu, adopted by his uncle, Wallachian ruler Matei Basarab (born circa 1588, ruled 1632 - 1654). It formerly resided at the Târgovişte monastery, Wallachia. It represents a prince in the characteristic costume of the 17th century, dressed in a caftan finished with buttons up to the chest and fastened in the middle with a belt, and above a cloak with a collar, turned over the shoulders and with sleeves. The details of the ornamentation on the chest of the caftan are similar to the golden thread coils found in the tomb itself in 1965. Things aren't certain, but the theory goes that it was commisioned in 1652 by Matei Basarab, from a master named Elias Nicolai that was from Sibiu, Transylvania. Nicolai also likely made the voivode's effigy (1654) and that of his wife's (1653). Basarab's first effigy was destroyed in the seimen & dorobanţ revolt in 1655. A second effigy was commisioned by voivode Constantin Şerban from the same Elias Nicolai (according to documents in Cluj, Transylvania). Howevert it was only installed only in 1658 at Arnota monastery, Wallachia, when Basarab's body was moved there from Târgovişte by Mihnea III Radu (according to Matei basarab's wishes).
http://clasate.cimec.ro/Detaliu.asp?...0febf1a2c2775e
http://galeriaportretelor.ro/item/matei-basarab-9/
http://galeriaportretelor.ro/item/matei-basarab/

The primay source for this info is "Memory from the past, display for the future - early modern funeral monuments from the Transylvanian principality by Dóra Mérai (2017)". An excelent resource!

Notes: although very deteriorated, one can see the sabre at his side, and his typical for the time clothing.

[Reventlov]

Originally Posted by Teisani

Since I don't know much about medieval European swords, would like to ask fellow forum members, what is your opinion on the Moldovan swords at the Topkapi palace(posted earlier), what period, what type, what manufacture...?

I can comment on this, and share more of the information I have collected on the interesting features that appear in late medieval swords from Southeastern Europe... maybe in a new thread to focus on this earlier time period, but with wider geographic view?

[Teisani]

Originally Posted by Reventlov

...maybe in a new thread to focus on this earlier time period, but with wider geographic view?

Sounds great!

[Reventlov]

New thread continues here.

[Teisani]

Two more swords from the "Muzeul Militar Naţional - Regele Ferdinand I" Bucharest.

[Teisani]

Ștefan (born 1584 - died 1602), Petru Șchiopul/Peter the Lame's son, mother Irina Botezata. He became Voivode/Prince of Moldova in february 1590 at the age of 5! Since he was so young, he ruled together with his father. He and his father stepped down from the throne in 1591. He then followed his parents into exile (Bozen, Tyrol), and after their deaths (Irina in 1592 and Peter the Lame in 1594) the Archduke of Tyrol appointed Ferdinand von Kuhbach as their guardian. Although his relatives tried to bring him back to Moldova, Emperor Rudolf II did not agree. Stefan was enrolled at the Jesuit College in Innsbruck, adopting the Catholic religion. Proclaimed of age in September 1600, he died two years later, most likely of tuberculosis. The portret resided at Ambras castle, Tyrol, Austria. It was lost however. http://galeriaportretelor.ro/item/st...etru-schiopul/

Note: Kid's got a nice sabre, typical Ottoman hilt.

[Teisani]

Two more portraits of Vasile Lupu of Moldova. One, posted previously, but managed to find a better one.