Small sickle. Bukhara, 19th century

[ariel]

Originally Posted by milandro

Most probably its quality of execution far out-performs function.

This is absolutely true. But knives/daggers varied in their sophistication and quality of execution depending on the status of their owner.
A garden variety Misericorde dagger was just kind of narrow stabbing blade with a minimalistic handle. But a rich man could have ordered a " work of art".

[fernando]

Originally Posted by ariel

Here are 2 images of quill sharpening. The size of the sharpeners is quite consistent with the example posted here: full size handles and small blades.

I could not find images of Oriental quill sharpening. But I kind of agree with Milandro: while generally knives were created with a specific function in mind but in real life could have been used for many functions.

Agree ... and disagree. Maybe instead of referring to the size i should have mentioned shape. To say that the blade curvature of Dmitry's example excludes the possibility of being a multiuse device and basically points to a specific purpose; pruning or the like.
... And sorry Dmitry for polluting your thread .


.

[kai]

Hello Ariel,

Here are 2 images of quill sharpening. The size of the sharpeners is quite consistent with the example posted here: full size handles and small blades.

For sharpening quills one would like an as thin blade as possible. The blade shown by Dmitry looks quite substantial.

For ease of sharpening the blade, a sheepsfoot blade would be perfect or at least a straight edge. This concave edge would need way more effort to keep the blade razor sharp!

The heavy hilt will also not help fine cutting tasks.

As already mentioned, it's certainly correct though that in such status pieces form does not always strictly follow function (if any).

Regards,
Kai

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by fernando

... And sorry Dmitry for polluting your thread .
.

Hello, fernando

No apologies. I am very interested in reading various interesting versions. Thank you and the rest of the contributors to this thread.

[mahratt]

By the way, I asked the same question on the Russian forum. One of the participants in the topic said that it would be very convenient to peel a pomegranate fruit with such a knife.

[fernando]

I know a better system; my wife pills them for me with bare hands ... and i devour the seeds .

[milandro]

cheers,

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by fernando

I know a better system; my wife pills them for me with bare hands ... and i devour the seeds .

This is a great option! Undoubtedly better than the proposed))

[Interested Party]

Originally Posted by mahratt

By the way, I asked the same question on the Russian forum. One of the participants in the topic said that it would be very convenient to peel a pomegranate fruit with such a knife.

I've seen pomegranates cut that way and use that method myself. the knife I use and have seen others use is a pruning knife. Which leads me back to my comment #13, a rich man's garden knife. the right shape but too highly decorated and costly for any regular work.

I guess it could be a table knife just for pomegranates, but it still seems expensive for that with wootz, walrus, and gold inlay. A status piece of some sort.

[Teisani]

Originally Posted by Interested Party

...Which leads me back to my comment #13, a rich man's garden knife. the right shape but too highly decorated and costly for any regular work.

I lean towards this as well, the short, concave side edge lends itself to this function. I can imagine a rich man strolling through his garden and picking a fruit or flower from a tree with this.

[David R]

I am now inclined to it being a pen cutter, for a traditional reed pen. That hooked end would be excellent for cutting the nib.... A Koranic scribe is high class enough for that sort of tool.

[fernando]

Looks like they all use straight blades .


.

[milandro]

quill cutters are generally straight there is really no need to cut pulling toward oneself (which is instead suggested by de hawkbill shape), in fact the name pen knife is the name left to this day and indicating generally a folding knife of a small size which a blade initially meant to do that, from the function of cutting quills

( the latin for quill is penna where the name from" pen" comes from)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penknife

this blade suggests the need to cut pulling towards the cutter or to make a round motion with the cut (as in when you want to do some types of, draft as in putting two pieces of plant one into the other)

[fernando]

Originally Posted by milandro

...( the latin for quill is penna where the name from" pen" comes from)...

In Portuguese, "pena", as also for feather .



.

[milandro]

yes, in many languages feather in Latin (pluma) is the root of the French word for pen, Plume

[fernando]

Originally Posted by fernando

Looks like they all use straight blades ...

Unless we are talking about the 'mechanized' system, with their luxury versions. I know i have approached this in my post #28 ... but never get tired to show this beautiful thing. Sorry guys .



.

[ariel]

The overall configuration of the blade of a pen knife is largely irrelevant: all it needs is to have a thin and sharp blade and a sharp point to make a slit in the tip of the pen.
In fact, the edge on that knife is either straight or minimally concave. Either, or especially the latter, will be very convenient for the task. Oriental cutlers were artistically more inventive than their European colleagues: witness the fancy blunt side with golden decorations: both are absolutely unnecessary for any cutting function but are very pretty. Reed pen, quill pen,- the principle is the same: they need re-sharpening, i.e. re-newing the tip.

As to peeling apples, pomegranates or oranges ( alas, not being grown in Central Asia), that's what servants are for:-)

[fernando]

Originally Posted by ariel

The overall configuration of the blade of a pen knife is largely irrelevant: all it needs is to have a thin and sharp blade and a sharp point to make a slit in the tip of the pen.
In fact, the edge on that knife is either straight or minimally concave. Either, or especially the latter, will be very convenient for the task. Oriental cutlers were artistically more inventive than their European colleagues: witness the fancy blunt side with golden decorations: both are absolutely unnecessary for any cutting function but are very pretty. Reed pen, quill pen,- the principle is the same: they need re-sharpening, i.e. re-newing the tip...

Vicit ... sed non persuasum .

Originally Posted by ariel

...As to peeling apples, pomegranates or oranges ( alas, not being grown in Central Asia), that's what servants are for:-)

Possibly servants were also used to resharpen quills . Talking of extremisms, i have once read that their tongues were used to wet the post stamps of their masters during colonialism.

[Gavin Nugent]

Olufsen noted that the pichoq attached in pairs were often used by the cooks in prominent families.

This is certainly from a person/family of standing to afford such a piece, and perhaps it too was used in the kitchen and is a bird's beak paring knife.

Gavin

[Oliver Pinchot]

Not for quils but for kamish, the reed or bamboo used for calligraphy.

[fernando]

Watch how it is regularly done, and the knife blade profile... by an Islamic expert.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdE8ihW5qbs


As already approached, admiting that Dmitry's example serves the same purpose, implies that the maker was clearly giving wings to his imagination; even assuming he is Asian ... and ergonomics apart.


.

[ariel]

There are as many ways to sharpen the reed pen ( Oliver, thanks!) than skin the cat:-)))