Persian pala type blade with tulwar hilt

[qusko]

Hi,

There is a lot of posts related to tulwars with foreign Persian blades, however first time I see it with pala type blade.

Can you share if that kind of setup was possible?

[Nihl]

Hi qusko,

Could you explain what you mean by "possible"? I'm not trying to be a pedant here; your own example shows that yes, it is possible.

If you mean to ask whether this blade-hilt combination was possible historically, then the answer is still yes, there's no reason why it wouldn't be. There was plenty of turkish influence and cultural exchange happening in various parts of India, most notably in the deccan, so it's entirely plausible kilij/pala blades ended up in India and were mounted in Indian hilts. In terms of whether or not there are many known surviving tulwars that have turkish blades, I'll admit that your posted example is one of the few that I've seen (with a genuine turkish blade anyways). As such, it seems appropriate to classify this combination as an uncommon one.

It's also worth noting that your example seems to be a 19th century creation. The blade might date to the late 18th century (although I'm no expert on turkish blades, so someone else on the forum can probably date it better), but the hilt and scabbard are absolutely 19th century in style. This isn't to say that this is an illegitimate mating, but just that it's entirely possible this sword was assembled for a European tourist to buy, rather than a warrior to proudly carry or wield in battle.

Also (one last thing to note), functionally speaking it's a good combination. A tulwar hilt would only help the performance of such a style of blade, given the draw cut-centric style of cutting that a tulwar hilt reinforces.

[qusko]

Hi Nihl,

By "possible" I meant it was historically correct combination that was used by a warrior during that period of time, or like a presentation saber for local magnate.

Having it as a combination for European tourist somehow does not relates to particular country history...therefore has less value for me. The question is as well, was it assembled in XIX th, or XX th century (that we may not know).

[Jim McDougall]

19th c. Bedouin Assad Allah, my collection, see:
"On the Persian Shamshir and the Signature of Assad Allah"
Oliver Pinchot, 2002

Persian trade late 18th through 19th.

As Nihl has pointed out, it is not a question of historical connection as the combining of either trade blades, heirloom or trophy blades was a very dynamic and regularly employed convention in most cultures. The character of the use of a given weapon was also relative, it may have been actively worn in combat situations, or of course worn as a status accoutrement in court or parade circumstances. All of these matters are typically speculative without exact provenance details.

In Oliver Pinchot's outstanding article he notes,
"The enormous demand for Persian blades both in Persia and abroad resulted in great increases in production at such centers as Khorasan, Qazrin and Isfahan in the late 18th and 19th c"

Further, "...Persian smiths reverted to producing an appreciably heavier and more complex type of blade replete with fullers, grooves and false edge, which had been popular prior to the reign of Abbas.".

"too, the familiar signature of Amali Assad Allah began to evolve into a simple pictogram representing a stylized lion contained within a circular cartouche".

Honestly, I have seen blades like on my Arabian saber on other types of swords including tulwars, piso podang and I believe many even on shashkas. .
I have not ever seen a 'pala' blade of this genre, but Ottoman influence was of course prevalent in Mughal courts, as well as Persian.

[ariel]

I am afraid that the Pala/Tulwar combination has old and genuine blade and the rest is modern. Compare the worn-out gilding of the ricasso with perfectly intact niello of the handle and the scabbard decor.
Was it sold from India?

[qusko]

Originally Posted by ariel

I am afraid that the Pala/Tulwar combination has old and genuine blade and the rest is modern. Compare the worn-out gilding of the ricasso with perfectly intact niello of the handle and the scabbard decor.
Was it sold from India?

It was on European auction. Seller was not from India. Silver koftgari is not the highest quality (not thick) and I tend to agree that surprisingly handle is intact....but if it was presentation saber ..still possible.

[qusko]

Adding some more pictures that may help to see silver koftgari on that saber.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by ariel

I am afraid that the Pala/Tulwar combination has old and genuine blade and the rest is modern. Compare the worn-out gilding of the ricasso with perfectly intact niello of the handle and the scabbard decor.
Was it sold from India?

Agreed, the hilt and scabbard seem 'modern' which would include late 19th into early 20th century, and seems to be fashioned in the 'bidri' convention, but not of course in the quality of the original. This seems likely to be Rajasthani, and indeed, one of these Assad Allah Persian trade blades of much earlier in the 19th c.

I would suggest this possibly something fashioned having to do with the durbars of the British Raj, where items were brought and sold in the bazaars present, but also such items and wares were traded among various tribal groups in a diplomatic sense.

The fact that this is a most unusual blade form for this genre of trade blades in my thought, suggests perhaps the latter is quite likely.

It is not unusual in ethnographic spheres to have heirloom or distinctive blades remounted in more current or locally favored dress. This is why these Persian trade blades are seen the scope I previously mentioned.

The blade itself retains its inherent history regardless of more modern dress, much as seen in the Figiel collection auctioned some years ago.

[Drabant1701]

I have seen some, only found this two right now. One is a persian trade blade with a poulwar hilt the other has a good tulwar hilt.
The blade on your pala is top quality and surely made of good wootz, If it where mine I would try polishing and etching it to bring out the wootz pattern. The dress looks like late 19th, early 20th century, but it is possible that the scabbard is original and has been restored when the hilt was added.
Its a very attractive sword, the later parts only add to its history.

[qusko]

I have found one more example with pala type saber assembly.

Knowing that blade is a good quality and scabbard and hilt are later, just wonder how does that impact value of that item.

Is that worth similar to e.g. mentioned below, potential the same period of blade and hilt assembly, pala type saber? What would be your judgment? (apart of - it's worth as much as someone wants to pay)

As such sabers are not cheap that's important to know ...

[qusko]

Other examples

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by qusko

It was on European auction. Seller was not from India. Silver koftgari is not the highest quality (not thick) and I tend to agree that surprisingly handle is intact....but if it was presentation saber ..still possible.

Items sold in Europe would not have had to be directly from India....many arms ended up in Europe.

[ariel]

I am a great believer in the Occam's rule:-)