Rare folding knives for your enjoyment

[fernando]

Hi Chris,
I will try (hard) to find some data on the subject; apparently not so easy.

[fernando]

Well Chris, this is what i got from a Portuguese antique arms authority; whether it fits the context and answers your question..


In the 16th to 18th centuries, the use and carrying of a navalha (provided it was not used with bad intentions) was free.
Navalha was called a knife with a folding blade, whose cutting part should not exceed the width of four fingers of an ordinary man, that is, 10 cm.
Once Alicante, Toledo and Seville had, in Napoleonic times, supplied navalhas of enormous dimensions, copying the idea of ​​the French navy's boarding saber, which allowed the blade to be folded into the handle, such giant navalhas were called "cuchilos to kill the French", who had banned them.
This denomination is just a popular curiosity. There was no law other than the banning of French occupation forces, both in Spain and Portugal.
Portuguese legislation made no difference between a folding blade (navalha) or a non-folding blade, knife or dagger.
There were laws in the 18th century that forbade knives with triangular blades, so called "diamantadas" or "diamond" blades. The penalties were severe. Being a nobleman, he was applied ten years of exile to Angola. If not, it was ten years in the galleys, which amounted to a very likely death penalty. Left-handed daggers were forbidden to any ordinary citizen and only used in combat zones of declared war. The sword could only be five spans long. Being larger than allowed by law was confiscated and heavily penalized both the bearer and the seller or manufacturer.
The "hand palm length navalha story" is an unregulated popular myth.

[mariusgmioc]

The large oversized navajas were indeed used for fighting...

[fernando]

Spanish half vara or 17 3/4" is about 45 cms.. Assuming this is the length with the blade unfolded, it is a big knife but, incomparably not so large as those huge things made for show off. The one posted in the last picture of #1 measures 113 cms. and we know there were larger specimens.
The example held by the First Spaniard may be a bit exuberated by the author.

[Chris Evans]

Hi Fernando,

Thanks for that information re Navalhas in olden times. Seems that Portugal was marching to a different drummer than Spain after the Burbons took over.

Cheers
Chris

[Chris Evans]

Hi Fernando

Originally Posted by fernando

.......Assuming this is the length with the blade unfolded<Snip>

Why do you assume that the measurement refers to the blade length, as opposed to the overall length? After all folding and fixed blade knives are often described by their overall length as well as by their blade length.

Of course, we'll never know which dimension the author had in mind but if it described OL, then the blade length would be around 18cm, entirely consistent with what Forton tells us and that is the length of the majority of surviving Spanish pre 1900 navajas.

Cheers
Chris

[fernando]

My bad,Chris !
I meant unfolded knife, not unfolded blade; thus knife entire length .

[broadaxe]

Isn't the straight one - dagger shaped - a Portuguese knife?

[Chris Evans]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

The large oversized navajas were indeed used for fighting...

Those illustrations are imbued with what we call these days `artistic license' and Gustav Dore was the grand master of dramatic illustrations.

I refer you to post #13 in http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...anual+baratero

Cheers
Chris

[werecow]

Originally Posted by fernando

the width of four fingers of an ordinary man, that is, 10 cm.

}\:o.

*glances at own apparently tiny hands*

[fernando]

Originally Posted by werecow

}\.

*glances at own apparently tiny hands*

Well, it depends somehow from where you measure the fingers.
I, for one, am no dwarf


.

[werecow]

Hah! Well, let's just say I will comfort myself with the thought that my hands will fit even the smallest sword grip.