The Prophet Muhammad's (PBUH) Swords:

OakenStaff · 19th July 2022, 09:48 PM

Salam, everybody.
I had a few questions about the swords the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is said to have used.
-What is the style of each blade? Are they all considered 'saif'?
-Is there any book or paper that you would recommend that covers these swords in particular, or provides an overview of 7th century Arabian arms and armor?
-About Al-Mikdam- can someone enlighten me on its history?

Thank you. I hope I did everything alright. I do hope I am not breaking any rule.

ariel · 20th July 2022, 07:06 AM

Yes, there are .
Go to bookfinder.com and find
Unsal Ucel “ Islamic swords and swordsmiths”, a catalog of collections from Topkapi and Askeri Muze.
If you want better pics of some of those swords, same place:
Hilmi Aydin “ The arms of the sultans”

You will find there swords from the Sacred Trusts, brought by the Ottomans from Egypt in 1517 after their defeat of the Mamluks.
Apparently, Aydin published a big and heavy (9 lbs!) book “ The Sacred Trust”, but I do not have it. Also on bookfinder.com

The problem is with a very heavy overlay of legends and fantasy of the descriptions, dating and attribution/provenance of all the swords belonging ( allegedly) to Muhammed and his companions, very poor and often destructive restorations and refurbishings and subsequent theft of valuable details already in the 20th century.

But that is all what we have…

kronckew · 20th July 2022, 09:21 AM

We do know that Arabian swords of the period were NOT curved. That style came much later. The Prophet's sword was also probably not forked at the point like legend ascribes.

They are all 'saif' - that just means 'sword'. (of any style)

This is the most famous of his swords, definitely NOT forked.

OakenStaff · 20th July 2022, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

We do know that Arabian swords of the period were NOT curved. That style came much later. The Prophet's sword was also probably not forked at the point like legend ascribes.

They are all 'saif' - that just means 'sword'. (of any style)

This is the most famous of his swords, definitely NOT forked.

Thank you, Kronckew! Do you know where the myth of the forked Dhul-Fiqar originates from, then?

Rick · 20th July 2022, 11:58 PM

Look here:

https://theislamicinformation.com/bl...i-ra-zulfiqar/

Sorry about all the pop-ups.

kronckew · 20th July 2022, 11:59 PM

Wiki does a good job explaining - the name implies a double 'something', some interpret it as double points, I agree with wiki it probably just means double edged, like the photo above.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zulfiqar.

OakenStaff · 21st July 2022, 04:35 PM

Thank you both very much!
But about Al-Mikdam, if it is a later blade, what culture would you ascribe it to?

ariel · 22nd July 2022, 03:35 PM

I am not sure any of the Forumites here has enough knowledge or interest to delve into a very complex history of one of the Muhammed's swords. I would love to help, but Ucel's book doesn't even give personal names of the swords and I have no idea which one is Al-Mikdam. Sorry.

But I have a solution: get the books with photographs and texts and start an exciting adventure of your own research project. I guess that Aydin's 9lb ( 4 kg) volume has enough information and references to start moving.

As they say, "Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."

Edster · 22nd July 2022, 05:48 PM

I've always liked "teach a man to fish and he can feed you for a lifetime "

:-)

OakenStaff · 22nd July 2022, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

I am not sure any of the Forumites here has enough knowledge or interest to delve into a very complex history of one of the Muhammed's swords. I would love to help, but Ucel's book doesn't even give personal names of the swords and I have no idea which one is Al-Mikdam. Sorry.

But I have a solution: get the books with photographs and texts and start an exciting adventure of your own research project. I guess that Aydin's 9lb ( 4 kg) volume has enough information and references to start moving.

As they say, "Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."

Alright, thank you very much. I am indebted to you. I suppose I will make this my research project, then.

Thank you, again.
Have a lovely day.

ariel · 23rd July 2022, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edster

I've always liked "teach a man to fish and he can feed you for a lifetime "

Globalization in full swing :-)

kronckew · 23rd July 2022, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edster

I've always liked "teach a man to fish and he can feed you for a lifetime "

:-)

Only if you have a handy lake/ocean...

Edster · 18th August 2022, 11:45 PM

Here is an article on the Dhu'l Faquar by Ahmed Helal Ahmed Hussein. It's apparently well researched. Hope this helps.

Best,
Ed

kronckew · 19th August 2022, 08:10 AM

Pictures?

19th July 2022, 09:48 PM	#1
OakenStaff Member Join Date: Jul 2022 Location: Pakistan Posts: 7	The Prophet Muhammad's (PBUH) Swords: Salam, everybody. I had a few questions about the swords the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is said to have used. -What is the style of each blade? Are they all considered 'saif'? -Is there any book or paper that you would recommend that covers these swords in particular, or provides an overview of 7th century Arabian arms and armor? -About Al-Mikdam- can someone enlighten me on its history? Thank you. I hope I did everything alright. I do hope I am not breaking any rule.

20th July 2022, 07:06 AM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Yes, there are . Go to bookfinder.com and find Unsal Ucel “ Islamic swords and swordsmiths”, a catalog of collections from Topkapi and Askeri Muze. If you want better pics of some of those swords, same place: Hilmi Aydin “ The arms of the sultans” You will find there swords from the Sacred Trusts, brought by the Ottomans from Egypt in 1517 after their defeat of the Mamluks. Apparently, Aydin published a big and heavy (9 lbs!) book “ The Sacred Trust”, but I do not have it. Also on bookfinder.com The problem is with a very heavy overlay of legends and fantasy of the descriptions, dating and attribution/provenance of all the swords belonging ( allegedly) to Muhammed and his companions, very poor and often destructive restorations and refurbishings and subsequent theft of valuable details already in the 20th century. But that is all what we have… Last edited by ariel; 20th July 2022 at 08:25 AM.

20th July 2022, 09:21 AM	#3
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,186	We do know that Arabian swords of the period were NOT curved. That style came much later. The Prophet's sword was also probably not forked at the point like legend ascribes. They are all 'saif' - that just means 'sword'. (of any style) This is the most famous of his swords, definitely NOT forked. Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 20th July 2022 at 10:25 AM.

20th July 2022, 11:58 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Look here: https://theislamicinformation.com/bl...i-ra-zulfiqar/ Sorry about all the pop-ups.

20th July 2022, 11:59 PM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,186	Wiki does a good job explaining - the name implies a double 'something', some interpret it as double points, I agree with wiki it probably just means double edged, like the photo above. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zulfiqar.

21st July 2022, 04:35 PM	#7
OakenStaff Member Join Date: Jul 2022 Location: Pakistan Posts: 7	Thank you both very much! But about Al-Mikdam, if it is a later blade, what culture would you ascribe it to?

22nd July 2022, 03:35 PM	#8
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I am not sure any of the Forumites here has enough knowledge or interest to delve into a very complex history of one of the Muhammed's swords. I would love to help, but Ucel's book doesn't even give personal names of the swords and I have no idea which one is Al-Mikdam. Sorry. But I have a solution: get the books with photographs and texts and start an exciting adventure of your own research project. I guess that Aydin's 9lb ( 4 kg) volume has enough information and references to start moving. As they say, "Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."

22nd July 2022, 05:48 PM	#9
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 408	I've always liked "teach a man to fish and he can feed you for a lifetime " :-)

19th August 2022, 08:10 AM	#14
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,186	Pictures?