18th century musket for identification

zummy · 12th July 2022, 11:36 PM

This has been in the family in NY state for generations. The gunsmith is believed to be from the Netherlands by the signed name Corbau Mastrich, believed to be the son of Godefroid Corbeau. They were gunsmiths in the early to mid 1700’s in Holland- Netherlands. I’m looking for verification. The musket came to the USA and was used in the civil war. Thanks for any help

gp · 13th July 2022, 10:29 AM

The Corbau family, actually Corbeau, comes from Maastricht, the Netherlands and was well known for manufacturing guns, rifles and pistols to the “Staten van Holland” ,i.e. the Dutch Republic in the 16 th century. And one of the world biggest exporters...

Arms were marked with "Corbeau à Maastricht". First mention Godefroi Corbeau (senior) gunmaker, became with his son a citizen of Maastricht ,
and member of the blacksmithguild in 12 juni 1717. Born date unknown, died 1760.
The son is Franciscus Josephus Corbeau born around 1749, died in Valkenburg 20 December 1812

“ Corbau (a) Mastrich “ is one of the many fancy ways of names written…but do not worry ! Yours is a real one
Congratulations on this most beautiful historical piece.

At that time the region of Limburg and Wallonia in the Low Countries ( presently the Netherlands and Belgium) between Maastricht and Liege were big and well known for their gun, rifle and pistol manufacturing: many were exported worldwide and specially to the American Civil War. There were many companies here in the Low Countries between Maastricht and Liege: starting from small companies, which mergered through the centuries and with presently only FN in Herstal Belgium as single survivor.
https://fnherstal.com/en/

During that period US pistolmakers f.i. licenced these companies to manufacture on their behalf, based upon the craftmanship and quality. Or these companies simply penetrated the US market: like S&W the Bulldogs; "Patents" applied for in the U.S.A. by Belgian gunmakers from Liege and they were "Approved" by the patent office. So quite some interaction indeed.
Back to Maastricht.... Many family names like Jean Aerts, Corbeau, De La Haye, Keunings, Kitzen, Krans, Stevens and Beaumont from Maastricht were involved and well known for their arms.

Additional: I found some Dutch publications which mentioned that some arms made between 1700-1750 were refurbished in 1800 -1850 and written :
Carbau (a) Ma(a)strich or CORBAV.LE.IEVNE ( Corbau le Jeune = Corbeau Jr....thus the son Frans-Joseph)
FYI: The famous Jamous Cook had a Carbeau pistol…sold for $227,000 at auction in 2013

a link to a museum with a similar rifle: https://emuseum.history.org/objects/...south-carolina
have a look at the details by clicking on the pics and do compare it with yours ! I am sure a smile will come on your face ! ☼

enclosed a picture of a rifle by Stevens of Maastricht with regards to the US Civil War Era

zummy · 14th July 2022, 01:40 AM

Thank you very much for this information. Would the marking make this a refurbished musket from the 1800’s rather than an original from the 1700’s. Do you know where I might be able to clarify. This information is wonderful to share with my son and grandson when I present it to them this summer. Any additional information would be much appreciated. Thanks again

zummy · 14th July 2022, 01:48 AM

I didn’t show that the musket has a saber that can be attached. I read some where that those with sabers were order in 1747

Lee · 14th July 2022, 03:05 AM

As a flintlock, I would suspect this musket would more likely be associated with the American Revolutionary War than the Civil War.

corrado26 · 14th July 2022, 10:34 AM

This gun has certainly absolutely nothing to do with the American Civil War. It is - or better - it was a Netherlands infantry gun M 1798, normally manufactured at the Kulembourg factory under David Martitz but also at some Dutch provincial gunmakers. The cock is a false replacement as is the front ring made of iron.

Lee · 14th July 2022, 12:53 PM

There was a significant Dutch presence in 18th century and earlier New York, so this could be a long used and 'irregularly' repaired musket originally of Dutch origin. If it indeed has been in your family for many generations, then I'd accept these were functional repairs in the working 'life' of the musket. (Had it come recently from a gun show, then much closer inspection would be needed to exclude the possibility of a recent assemblage from various parts.)

zummy · 14th July 2022, 03:14 PM

I misspoke about the war, it was the American Revolution. The gun came from upstate NY near where many battles were fought. The gun has the name Coll
Ruysch inscribed on the brass. How could he be identified. It’s a dutch name and was probably his originally. Where could I find Dutch army records form the 1700’s. Thanks

zummy · 14th July 2022, 03:30 PM

The photo of the name on the musket attached

Lee · 14th July 2022, 04:04 PM

Years ago, I found an old powder horn at a gun show, simply (and believably) inscribed "Gerrit Konstapel Hurley 1776." There is a great street of old Dutch stone houses in that small Hudson Valley village and I visited on the annual open house day (decades ago). Visiting the cemetery, I found his wife's marker (she was inscribed as being his wife with his name now Anglicized) and beside it was a plain stone that I took as his. Just now I entered his name into Google and it led to old church records of his marriage and of his serving as a witness to baptisms a few decades before the Revolutionary War.

So, I would start with a general internet search of his name. Likely your local historical society or library would have reference books of persons who served in the American Revolution and War of 1812 from New York. If you know where your family was at the time this could help narrow your search.

zummy · 14th July 2022, 04:55 PM

Thank you , I will try that for us search, but I was thinking it may have originated in the Netherlands army and wondered if anyone had idea to find records from the Netherlands as well. This forum is a wealth of knowledge

gp · 14th July 2022, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zummy

I misspoke about the war, it was the American Revolution. The gun came from upstate NY near where many battles were fought. The gun has the name Coll
Ruysch inscribed on the brass. How could he be identified. ItÂ’s a dutch name and was probably his originally. Where could I find Dutch army records form the 1700Â’s. Thanks

Well NY used to be Nieuw Amsterdam = New Amsterdam and part of Nieuw Nederland / New Netherland.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._TABULA%27.jpg

Founded by the WIC ( West Indische Compagnie) before we Dutch lost it to the English.
Some info on that topic could be found in this literature:

Russell Shorto (2004): The Island at the Center of the World, New York. ISBN 0-385-50349-0
Jaap Jacobs (2005): New Netherland. A Dutch Colony in Seventeenth-Century America, Leiden. ISBN 90-04-12906-5
Joyce Diane Goodfriend (red.) (2005): Revisiting New Netherland, perspectives on early Dutch America, Leiden. ISBN 90-04-14507-9
Concerning the WIC : try an email to

https://www.westindischecompagnie.in...tjes/email.png

Or the city of Amsterdam might be able to assist pointing you in the right direction:

stadsarchief@amsterdam.nl

Or the Museum of Amsterdam as well:

info@amsterdammuseum.nl

But I also would advise you to contact organizations in New York and the USA, even some universities who are specialized in and dealing with the Dutch heritage, history and relationship in and with the USA.
Even some of the Dutch churches in that region have a lot of information in their files . Good luck .

FYI: Harlem (= city of Haarlem), Brooklyn (city of Breukelen) en Flushing (city of Vlissingen), Staten Island ( de Nederlandse Staten-Generaal, being the government ) and Coney Island (konijneneiland = rabbit island )

And maybe here in the below link, you might also find some clues to start as well…

but simple checking the name Ruysch in and around NY or Jersey might do the trick : a common Dutch name and certainly some one must have some kind of family tree…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Americans

Norman McCormick · 14th July 2022, 06:25 PM

Hi,
I would contact the Dutch Army Museum. I did so with regard to this musket http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=M1815 and found them very helpful. See the last post in the thread.
Regards,
Norman.

zummy · 15th July 2022, 11:17 PM

Thank you Norm. I was able to find on line the Dutch army Museum and that Matthieu Willemsen is still listed as the fire arm curator. How were you able to communicate with him? Thanks

zummy · 15th July 2022, 11:37 PM

I played around and from in the upper right hand corner of the web site you can change the language to English and I wrote them with my question. Thank you very much. Hopefully they will reply

gp · 16th July 2022, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi,
I would contact the Dutch Army Museum. I did so with regard to this musket http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=M1815 and found them very helpful. See the last post in the thread.
Regards,
Norman.

https://www.nmm.nl/en/

Norman McCormick · 17th July 2022, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zummy

Thank you Norm. I was able to find on line the Dutch army Museum and that Matthieu Willemsen is still listed as the fire arm curator. How were you able to communicate with him? Thanks

Hi,
I just e-mailed my questions as I see you've done. Hopefully you'll get an answer soon with interesting info. Good luck.
Regards,
Norman.

zummy · 19th July 2022, 05:03 PM

I am discussing the musket with Matthieu Willemsen. He believes the musket belonged to Colonel Hendrix Ruysch who had a regiment in the Dutch army between 1748 and 1765. I sent more photos

Norman McCormick · 19th July 2022, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zummy

I am discussing the musket with Matthieu Willemsen. He believes the musket belonged to Colonel Hendrix Ruysch who had a regiment in the Dutch army between 1748 and 1765. I sent more photos

Hi,
Interesting information already and hopefully more to come.

Regards,
Norman.

zummy · 20th July 2022, 09:45 PM

Matthieu Willemsen has confirmed that the musket would have been made between 1755 and 1765. He said Colonel Ruysch had a regiment in the Dutch army from 1748 to 1765. Ruysch would have purchased the musket from the Corbau family of gunsmiths. The letter E on the thumb plate would represent the 5th company in the regiment. He was nobility. He feels the saber was added and the the cock might be from a British Brown Bess. He will contact me will anything else that turns up. A wonderful source of knowledge

12th July 2022, 11:36 PM	#1
zummy Member Join Date: Jul 2022 Posts: 10	18th century musket for identification This has been in the family in NY state for generations. The gunsmith is believed to be from the Netherlands by the signed name Corbau Mastrich, believed to be the son of Godefroid Corbeau. They were gunsmiths in the early to mid 1700’s in Holland- Netherlands. I’m looking for verification. The musket came to the USA and was used in the civil war. Thanks for any help Attached Images

13th July 2022, 10:29 AM	#2
gp Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 726	The Corbau family, actually Corbeau, comes from Maastricht, the Netherlands and was well known for manufacturing guns, rifles and pistols to the “Staten van Holland” ,i.e. the Dutch Republic in the 16 th century. And one of the world biggest exporters... Arms were marked with "Corbeau à Maastricht". First mention Godefroi Corbeau (senior) gunmaker, became with his son a citizen of Maastricht , and member of the blacksmithguild in 12 juni 1717. Born date unknown, died 1760. The son is Franciscus Josephus Corbeau born around 1749, died in Valkenburg 20 December 1812 “ Corbau (a) Mastrich “ is one of the many fancy ways of names written…but do not worry ! Yours is a real one Congratulations on this most beautiful historical piece. At that time the region of Limburg and Wallonia in the Low Countries ( presently the Netherlands and Belgium) between Maastricht and Liege were big and well known for their gun, rifle and pistol manufacturing: many were exported worldwide and specially to the American Civil War. There were many companies here in the Low Countries between Maastricht and Liege: starting from small companies, which mergered through the centuries and with presently only FN in Herstal Belgium as single survivor. https://fnherstal.com/en/ During that period US pistolmakers f.i. licenced these companies to manufacture on their behalf, based upon the craftmanship and quality. Or these companies simply penetrated the US market: like S&W the Bulldogs; "Patents" applied for in the U.S.A. by Belgian gunmakers from Liege and they were "Approved" by the patent office. So quite some interaction indeed. Back to Maastricht.... Many family names like Jean Aerts, Corbeau, De La Haye, Keunings, Kitzen, Krans, Stevens and Beaumont from Maastricht were involved and well known for their arms. Additional: I found some Dutch publications which mentioned that some arms made between 1700-1750 were refurbished in 1800 -1850 and written : Carbau (a) Ma(a)strich or CORBAV.LE.IEVNE ( Corbau le Jeune = Corbeau Jr....thus the son Frans-Joseph) FYI: The famous Jamous Cook had a Carbeau pistol…sold for $227,000 at auction in 2013 a link to a museum with a similar rifle: https://emuseum.history.org/objects/...south-carolina have a look at the details by clicking on the pics and do compare it with yours ! I am sure a smile will come on your face ! ☼ enclosed a picture of a rifle by Stevens of Maastricht with regards to the US Civil War Era Attached Images Last edited by gp; 13th July 2022 at 02:11 PM.

14th July 2022, 01:40 AM	#3
zummy Member Join Date: Jul 2022 Posts: 10	Musket Thank you very much for this information. Would the marking make this a refurbished musket from the 1800’s rather than an original from the 1700’s. Do you know where I might be able to clarify. This information is wonderful to share with my son and grandson when I present it to them this summer. Any additional information would be much appreciated. Thanks again

14th July 2022, 01:48 AM	#4
zummy Member Join Date: Jul 2022 Posts: 10	Musket I didn’t show that the musket has a saber that can be attached. I read some where that those with sabers were order in 1747

14th July 2022, 03:14 PM	#8
zummy Member Join Date: Jul 2022 Posts: 10	Musket I misspoke about the war, it was the American Revolution. The gun came from upstate NY near where many battles were fought. The gun has the name Coll Ruysch inscribed on the brass. How could he be identified. It’s a dutch name and was probably his originally. Where could I find Dutch army records form the 1700’s. Thanks

14th July 2022, 03:05 AM	#5
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 914	As a flintlock, I would suspect this musket would more likely be associated with the American Revolutionary War than the Civil War.

14th July 2022, 10:34 AM	#6
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,207	This gun has certainly absolutely nothing to do with the American Civil War. It is - or better - it was a Netherlands infantry gun M 1798, normally manufactured at the Kulembourg factory under David Martitz but also at some Dutch provincial gunmakers. The cock is a false replacement as is the front ring made of iron.

14th July 2022, 12:53 PM	#7
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 914	There was a significant Dutch presence in 18th century and earlier New York, so this could be a long used and 'irregularly' repaired musket originally of Dutch origin. If it indeed has been in your family for many generations, then I'd accept these were functional repairs in the working 'life' of the musket. (Had it come recently from a gun show, then much closer inspection would be needed to exclude the possibility of a recent assemblage from various parts.)

14th July 2022, 03:30 PM	#9
zummy Member Join Date: Jul 2022 Posts: 10	The photo of the name on the musket attached Attached Images

14th July 2022, 04:04 PM	#10
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 914	Years ago, I found an old powder horn at a gun show, simply (and believably) inscribed "Gerrit Konstapel Hurley 1776." There is a great street of old Dutch stone houses in that small Hudson Valley village and I visited on the annual open house day (decades ago). Visiting the cemetery, I found his wife's marker (she was inscribed as being his wife with his name now Anglicized) and beside it was a plain stone that I took as his. Just now I entered his name into Google and it led to old church records of his marriage and of his serving as a witness to baptisms a few decades before the Revolutionary War. So, I would start with a general internet search of his name. Likely your local historical society or library would have reference books of persons who served in the American Revolution and War of 1812 from New York. If you know where your family was at the time this could help narrow your search.

14th July 2022, 04:55 PM	#11
zummy Member Join Date: Jul 2022 Posts: 10	Musket Thank you , I will try that for us search, but I was thinking it may have originated in the Netherlands army and wondered if anyone had idea to find records from the Netherlands as well. This forum is a wealth of knowledge

14th July 2022, 06:25 PM	#13
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,598	Hi, I would contact the Dutch Army Museum. I did so with regard to this musket http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=M1815 and found them very helpful. See the last post in the thread. Regards, Norman.

15th July 2022, 11:17 PM	#14
zummy Member Join Date: Jul 2022 Posts: 10	Musket Thank you Norm. I was able to find on line the Dutch army Museum and that Matthieu Willemsen is still listed as the fire arm curator. How were you able to communicate with him? Thanks

15th July 2022, 11:37 PM	#15
zummy Member Join Date: Jul 2022 Posts: 10	Musket I played around and from in the upper right hand corner of the web site you can change the language to English and I wrote them with my question. Thank you very much. Hopefully they will reply

19th July 2022, 05:03 PM	#18
zummy Member Join Date: Jul 2022 Posts: 10	Musket I am discussing the musket with Matthieu Willemsen. He believes the musket belonged to Colonel Hendrix Ruysch who had a regiment in the Dutch army between 1748 and 1765. I sent more photos

20th July 2022, 09:45 PM	#20
zummy Member Join Date: Jul 2022 Posts: 10	Musket Matthieu Willemsen has confirmed that the musket would have been made between 1755 and 1765. He said Colonel Ruysch had a regiment in the Dutch army from 1748 to 1765. Ruysch would have purchased the musket from the Corbau family of gunsmiths. The letter E on the thumb plate would represent the 5th company in the regiment. He was nobility. He feels the saber was added and the the cock might be from a British Brown Bess. He will contact me will anything else that turns up. A wonderful source of knowledge Last edited by zummy; 21st July 2022 at 12:10 PM.