Pikes, Spears or Lances

[Rick]

What, where and when Gentlemen?

[Jim McDougall]

As near as I can tell, these unusual head items are British cavalry lances of pattern 1820. It seems these were found unsatisfactory from being ill balanced in the carry bucket, but more is unclear. In 1827 it was decided to establish a new pattern, with some interest toward French examples from 1815, but the next pattern (1840) did not align with French designs so source unclear.

It would appear that this volume together must be from a regimental armory, possibly of a yeomanry regiment ? as these must have been returned to stores after replacement by the M1840 in the following years.

Source"
"The Cavalry Lance"
Alan Larsen & Henry Yallop, 2017

[Rick]

Thank you, Jim. They look quite unwieldy to me; I wish I could offer more pictures, but there was only this image and I have no idea of the source because I lifted it from an image board.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Rick

Thank you, Jim. They look quite unwieldy to me; I wish I could offer more pictures, but there was only this image and I have no idea of the source because I lifted it from an image board.

You bet Rick!
Quite a grouping there, and I have been trying to locate the panel of drawings I referred to, think it was in "Sword, Lance & Bayonet" , Hopkinson & Ffoulkes 1938....but for sure these are 1820 patterns.

Wish I had one of these, I've still got 5, two 1868 British and the other Bengal Lancers WWI. I recall years ago watching a RCMP (Canadian Mounties) exhibition with lances, pretty impressive!
Then my episode when I picked up two lances at LAX, but, oops, in a corvette driving down the 405 freeway , NOT so impressive!

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Then my episode when I picked up two lances at LAX, but, oops, in a corvette driving down the 405 freeway , NOT so impressive!

Should we assume that you were the only occupant of the vehicle, and thus not driving and deploying the weapon(s) simultaneously? Easier done on a horse as opposed to in an automobile, at any rate. Sadly, this sounds like a pre-YouTube incident.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Philip

Should we assume that you were the only occupant of the vehicle, and thus not driving and deploying the weapon(s) simultaneously? Easier done on a horse as opposed to in an automobile, at any rate. Sadly, this sounds like a pre-YouTube incident.

LOL! Thank you Philip!!! Actually yes, I was, and lost in the hubris of 'the charge' as I barreled down the 405 Freeway!!! The CHP officer who completely foiled my 'charge' was baffled, but lightly amused by my situation as I explained.

This one was up there with my unfortunate and Drambuie laden and inadvertent combat between a tulwar and ceiling fan, very Don Quixote!

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

LOL! Thank you Philip!!! Actually yes, I was, and lost in the hubris of 'the charge' as I barreled down the 405 Freeway!!! The CHP officer who completely foiled my 'charge' was baffled, but lightly amused by my situation as I explained.

This one was up there with my unfortunate and Drambuie laden and inadvertent combat between a tulwar and ceiling fan, very Don Quixote!

Did you recite part of Tennyson's poem about that Crimean encounter? If the officer had any appreciation of literature he would have had to let you go scot-free.

I once killed an oscillating room fan with a stroke from a Qing military saber after watching one too many martial arts films. Fan was on, the blade clove through the wire guard and shattered the plastic fan propeller.

[fernando]

Every time Jim tells this story, i recall bringing two polearms from Rainer Daehnhardt's shop, in which my car (computerized) fuel consumption increased with the mounting of crosswise crates on the car roof ... and lowered back on the way back, due to the aerodinamics of the (wrapped) pointy devices.
No cop interference on the highway, though .

The only accidental marks i have caused are a few scratches in the ceiling when i handle long pole arms before positioning them in the living room walls.


.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by fernando

Every time Jim tells this story, i recall bringing two polearms from Rainer Daehnhardt's shop, in which my car (computerized) fuel consumption increased with the mounting of crosswise crates on the car roof ... and lowered back on the way back, due to the aerodinamics of the (wrapped) pointy devices.
No cop interference on the highway, though .

The only accidental marks i have caused are a few scratches in the ceiling when i handle long pole arms before positioning them in the living room walls.


.

LOL!!! every time I tell this story!!! ......its like my grandson when I say, 'did I tell ya the one about ...?' he retorts, 'uh, yeah grandpa! about 40p00 times!!!!
Im glad Im not alone in these mid-adventures !!!
Fernando, it seems like you had a lot of physics at play there.........you needed a weight and balance sheet!

[adrian]

reply deleted

[M ELEY]

The topic of 'sword misadventures' would make a great thread on it's own! Really, the only thing I ever had happen was the time I was forcefully trying to remove a mekugi pin from a kyu gunto when the magnificently sharp blade peeled back my jeans and gave my thigh a clean shave! A millimeter further south and I would have bore a scar to brag about!

[Will M]

Reminds me of the one lance I have, an 1868p marked to A troop RCD, Royal Canadian Dragoons. Luckily my 2002 Camaro has T tops (and it was not raining) so the lance protruded upwards at an angle out the top. Original bamboo shaft and buff leather strap and brown leather covered section.
Interestingly the lance heads and buts are of different internal diameters and number marked for size to fit the bamboo.

[adrian]

It is also interesting that male bamboo is used for the shaft and male bamboo is solid, not hollow.

[BUCC_Guy]

I quite like the beefy ones without the bulb.

[Klop]

Dear fellow members, I'm glad I found this thread. A while ago I picked up my first european lance and started searching the internet for info, not very much there.

My example was mounted on the top section of its original shaft but broken and with a dowel and some putty and paint attached to another piece of wood. Luckily I had a nice Ash pole (from an agricultural tool) so I want to do some kind of reconstruction to close of how it should be. It will never be accurate and that's not the intention, but if I can get close with moderate effort and it looks good that's fine. For example no screws with philips heads allowed...


At first all lances looked alike but then I notice the subtle differences;
- langnets in line with the ridge, or with the cutting edges
- the "armpit" where the langnets meet the socket: straight cut or rounded
- different eyelets for the penon

Based on the pics I would say mine is the British pattern 1846.

the biggest question mark is how to attach a pennon, on what type of eyes? In one of the langnets there are extra holes that seem to be (have been) threaded, should these have the big bulbous eyelets on this model? And if so, how to attach the penon to them? I'v seen rings but also a strip with eyelets and then some thick rope through the bulbs to secure the penon. Any pics or info on this part would be highly appreciated!

By the way the point it not very sharp. It seems original but ground to the ridge you get more of a chisel than a real pointy point. With enough speed and force behind it this might be sufficient, or could be sharpened if desired. Usually bayonets are also not razorsharp. See attached pics.


Kind regards,
Eric.

[Klop]

penon attachment