Old talibong

h0ll0wman · 16th May 2021, 01:51 AM

The second one in my collection. I find it unusual that this talibong is engraved and with a date stamp of "1896".

Sajen · 16th May 2021, 11:01 AM

It's a nice one and the first I've seen which is dated at the blade. I've seen them dated on the scabbard before.

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 16th May 2021, 11:04 AM

Here you can see a few more: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=talibong

xasterix · 16th May 2021, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Here you can see a few more: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=talibong

Thanks for the redirect Detlef!

Interesting blade; something about the profile reminds me more of a pinuti- Cebu rather than Leyte/Samar. Also the first time I've seen the date engraved on the blade.

jokrho · 16th May 2021, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xasterix

Thanks for the redirect Detlef!

Interesting blade; something about the profile reminds me more of a pinuti- Cebu rather than Leyte/Samar. Also the first time I've seen the date engraved on the blade.

I concur.

The blade profile is that of a Cebuano pinuti. But a lovely specimen of an early one. Congrats!

Battara · 16th May 2021, 08:10 PM

I agree and it is uncommon to see this type of floral blade engravings (though some even have brass inlay).

h0ll0wman · 18th May 2021, 02:23 AM

Thank you for the insights! Perhaps this is an old Pinuti from Cebu rather than a talibong from Samar?

Battara · 19th May 2021, 04:01 AM

Oh I think tailbong came from Cebu too.

h0ll0wman · 19th May 2021, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Oh I think tailbong came from Cebu too.

Thank you for the clarification. To be honest, I am confused about the pinuti and talibong.

xasterix · 19th May 2021, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Oh I think tailbong came from Cebu too.

Hope you don't mind me correcting... "talibong" term actually isn't endemic in Leyte/Samar. The Waray call their battle blades as "sundang" and their utility ones as "bolo." While there's been info in this forum that the rattan-wrapped, thumb-indented, heavy-bellied bolo used to be called "garab," the Filipino Traditional Blades research group is still gathering data on the ground for the actual name of that weapon. They believe that there's a more specific term for that blade that's endemic to the Waray-speaking areas.

This has been the case for Cebuano 'pinuti,' which FTB researched to have different variants with specific blade profiles and other defining features - lawi-lawi, tinamban, lawihan, etc which can be traced back to antique samples as well.

h0ll0wman · 19th May 2021, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xasterix

Hope you don't mind me correcting... "talibong" term actually isn't endemic in Leyte/Samar. The Waray call their battle blades as "sundang" and their utility ones as "bolo." While there's been info in this forum that the rattan-wrapped, thumb-indented, heavy-bellied bolo used to be called "garab," the Filipino Traditional Blades research group is still gathering data on the ground for the actual name of that weapon. They believe that there's a more specific term for that blade that's endemic to the Waray-speaking areas.

This has been the case for Cebuano 'pinuti,' which FTB researched to have different variants with specific blade profiles and other defining features - lawi-lawi, tinamban, lawihan, etc which can be traced back to antique samples as well.

Thank you. This is good information.

JeffS · 19th May 2021, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xasterix

This has been the case for Cebuano 'pinuti,' which FTB researched to have different variants with specific blade profiles and other defining features - lawi-lawi, tinamban, lawihan, etc which can be traced back to antique samples as well.

Cool. Is there a way to view this research?

xasterix · 19th May 2021, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffS

Cool. Is there a way to view this research?

Yes, it's in the entries of the Filipino Traditional Blades page on Facebook... you'll just have to use the search bar there or browse the past entries, they've discussed and shown samples of pinuti variants extensively.

JeffS · 19th May 2021, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xasterix

Yes, it's in the entries of the Filipino Traditional Blades page on Facebook... you'll just have to use the search bar there or browse the past entries, they've discussed and shown samples of pinuti variants extensively.

Yes, using "pinuti" as a search term brought up dozens of examples. Great resource!
As an aside, I find the similarity between "lawi-lawi" and the Formosa Atayal sword name "lau-lau" or "law-law" interesting. The link between Taiwan and Philippines has been discussed here before but usually in comparison of the open face scabbard design to the Ifaguo hinalung/pinahig. However the acute point, broad belly, and ring ferrule features of many pinuti do match many mountain Formosa blades (though they typically do not have straight spines). I've also seen talibong scabbards that closely match the Atayal scabbard in profile with the flared "fish tail" foot.

jokrho · 23rd May 2021, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xasterix

Hope you don't mind me correcting... "talibong" term actually isn't endemic in Leyte/Samar. The Waray call their battle blades as "sundang" and their utility ones as "bolo." While there's been info in this forum that the rattan-wrapped, thumb-indented, heavy-bellied bolo used to be called "garab," the Filipino Traditional Blades research group is still gathering data on the ground for the actual name of that weapon. They believe that there's a more specific term for that blade that's endemic to the Waray-speaking areas.

This has been the case for Cebuano 'pinuti,' which FTB researched to have different variants with specific blade profiles and other defining features - lawi-lawi, tinamban, lawihan, etc which can be traced back to antique samples as well.

Seconding this. Sundang is to Waray as Pinuti is to Cebuano.

Ian · 23rd May 2021, 08:00 PM

Jokhro and Xas,

Thanks for clarifying some of these terms again. Trying to peel away the layers of terminology, not to mention mistakes that have been propagated for decades, is impossible from outside the host culture. That's why groups such as FTB, who conduct their research at ground level and post their information freely, are so valuable to collectors here.

Sharing information in this way, some of which has been held closely within the original communities, is the essence of scholarship and learning. It also helps sustain interest in traditional Filipino weapons and their production by local panday.

Jazz · 8th June 2021, 01:52 AM

Yes, i concure with what xasterix said. A lot of terms that are still being used in this forum are pretty much debunked. A couple pages on Fb are pretty much the go to site on any Moro/Filipino weapons.
To be brutally honest, anything Moro/Filipino in this website was a great intro a long time ago; but nowadays it's more misleading than anything else. As they say in the Philippines, "Sayang!"

Battara · 8th June 2021, 02:59 AM

I thank you for the updated correction Xasterix.

Maraming Salamat!

16th May 2021, 01:51 AM	#1
h0ll0wman Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Posts: 71	Old talibong The second one in my collection. I find it unusual that this talibong is engraved and with a date stamp of "1896". Attached Images

8th June 2021, 01:52 AM	#17
Jazz Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 44	Yes, i concure with what xasterix said. A lot of terms that are still being used in this forum are pretty much debunked. A couple pages on Fb are pretty much the go to site on any Moro/Filipino weapons. To be brutally honest, anything Moro/Filipino in this website was a great intro a long time ago; but nowadays it's more misleading than anything else. As they say in the Philippines, "Sayang!" Last edited by Battara; 8th June 2021 at 05:22 AM.

16th May 2021, 11:01 AM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,761	It's a nice one and the first I've seen which is dated at the blade. I've seen them dated on the scabbard before. Regards, Detlef

16th May 2021, 11:04 AM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,761	Here you can see a few more: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=talibong

16th May 2021, 08:10 PM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,217	I agree and it is uncommon to see this type of floral blade engravings (though some even have brass inlay).

18th May 2021, 02:23 AM	#7
h0ll0wman Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Posts: 71	Thank you for the insights! Perhaps this is an old Pinuti from Cebu rather than a talibong from Samar?

19th May 2021, 04:01 AM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,217	Oh I think tailbong came from Cebu too.

23rd May 2021, 08:00 PM	#16
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,194	Jokhro and Xas, Thanks for clarifying some of these terms again. Trying to peel away the layers of terminology, not to mention mistakes that have been propagated for decades, is impossible from outside the host culture. That's why groups such as FTB, who conduct their research at ground level and post their information freely, are so valuable to collectors here. Sharing information in this way, some of which has been held closely within the original communities, is the essence of scholarship and learning. It also helps sustain interest in traditional Filipino weapons and their production by local panday.

8th June 2021, 02:59 AM	#18
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,217	I thank you for the updated correction Xasterix. Maraming Salamat!