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Old 31st March 2021, 09:31 PM   #1
AHorsa
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Gentlemen, thank you so much for your comments. I am really happy to hear that. The helmet was covert with some varnish when I got it, looking quite artificial. And then the light weight.
I just cleaned the surface rust from the "white" parts. By the way: does anyone know the meaning of the fleur de lis on those "black and white" morions?

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Andreas
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Old 31st March 2021, 10:17 PM   #2
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good afternoon, probably Germany late 16th century.
with respect..
(as an example, photo from 1stdibs.com)
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Old 31st March 2021, 10:20 PM   #3
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and they were most likely painted with black paint in later times
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Old 1st April 2021, 12:07 AM   #4
Jim McDougall
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Munich town Guard c. 1600
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Old 1st April 2021, 07:27 AM   #5
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Thank you for the further replies. Yes, this type is described as German about 1580. I doubt that all of this helmets can be attributed to the Munich town guard, as they appear pretty often. But it could be an interesting hint that they are meybe of south German origin.
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Old 1st April 2021, 02:10 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHorsa
Thank you for the further replies. Yes, this type is described as German about 1580. I doubt that all of this helmets can be attributed to the Munich town guard, as they appear pretty often. But it could be an interesting hint that they are meybe of south German origin.
I've often wondered their true source. Seems every auction has a few of them. There must have been a huge number of them made.
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Old 1st April 2021, 02:50 PM   #7
Jim McDougall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHorsa
Thank you for the further replies. Yes, this type is described as German about 1580. I doubt that all of this helmets can be attributed to the Munich town guard, as they appear pretty often. But it could be an interesting hint that they are meybe of south German origin.
As noted, these seem to be pretty much a constant in auctions as far as these combed morions go, and have been for some time. Often they appear as an example in discussions of the use of the fluer de lis to indicate that this symbol was far from exclusively French. As a well known center for arms and armor, I wonder if these became a noted style which supplied other units in other 'town guard' activity, thus the apparent volume of these helmets.
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Old 1st April 2021, 04:00 PM   #8
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It would be interesting to see some contemporary images/engravings of that time showing a soldier or a guard wearing such a black and whtie morion or at least a plane morion. As they survived in such high numbers, there must be some. But I´ve never seen one. Does anyone of you? The only image I know is this one from 1572 showing some soldier wearing helmets that could be (abstracted) morions (next to the trunks and in the background).

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Andreas
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Old 1st April 2021, 04:02 PM   #9
fernando
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I have checked a few (auction) sources and in one of them a half dozen comb morrions with different embossed patterns were labeled Munich Town Guard; this speaks for itself.
There must be out there some honest reference to the appearing of the "black & white' + 'fleur de lis" craze. In fact they are "more than their mothers"; i even saw one in a local auctioner; one i feared for its authenticity.
But one thing we know; the comb morrion originates from Spain and, in context, was extended to the Portuguese.
Here are two nice XVII century Benin bronzes depicting armoured Portuguese soldiers wearing morrions. Apparently without a comb, though.

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Last edited by fernando; 1st April 2021 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 1st April 2021, 04:23 PM   #10
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What a great find, Fernando! Those figures really depict history

Last edited by AHorsa; 1st April 2021 at 04:49 PM.
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