17th German burgonet

Lansquenet59 · 26th January 2021, 05:03 PM

Hi,
Here is a burgonet that I just had recently, probably German, I spotted a small marking of 3 points on the visor, it can be the marking of an arsenal?

fernando · 26th January 2021, 05:29 PM

Splendid,Thomas

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The three dots; you mean those faded marks ?

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Lansquenet59 · 26th January 2021, 05:42 PM

Yes Fernado

fernando · 26th January 2021, 05:46 PM

If they were meant to be marks, they would be more visible (deeper) ?

Lansquenet59 · 27th January 2021, 04:29 PM

You are probably right Fernando. I thought I already had these 3 points somewhere, but I could be wrong.

fernando · 27th January 2021, 04:55 PM

Places you see them are in early 'cannonry' as in these two of mine.

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fernando · 27th January 2021, 07:05 PM

And four dots

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Lansquenet59 · 28th January 2021, 05:40 PM

But what do these points mean Fernando ?

fernando · 28th January 2021, 06:24 PM

I don't recall anyone establishing their precise purpose. I would take it as a decoration, maybe sometimes with a mystic intent, but not a smith mark or 'signature'. You can see them in weapons as early as from the XVI century (if not earlier); sometimes added to other symbols but so often alone. You can see them also in number of four.
Maybe more knowledge members know more about this suject.

Victrix · 28th January 2021, 08:52 PM

These dot marks seem to appear on a variety of iron and steel items and presumably used to identify production batches (i.e. some sort of batch mark?). I have seen similar dots on cast iron pans in the US. It may have been used to identify the maker in a workshop shared by several smiths, or to show for which end customer it was intended. Probably the mark was intended for internal use only.

Then there are dots on sword blades which seem to have some sort of decorative and mystic/superstitious/religious meaning as Fernando alluded to. We discussed it previously here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...&page=10&pp=30.

There’s something here in post #20 as well. But I don’t think these are related to batch marks: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22313.

Lansquenet59 · 29th January 2021, 06:00 PM

And maybe a quality control? We may never know....

fernando · 29th January 2021, 06:42 PM

I don't think so; a quality control mark would be restricted to certain type of things and to a determined area; not to say to a speficic arsenal.These dots appear 'everywhere'; so more consistent with decoration, mysticism, religion, exoterism ... pick one

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26th January 2021, 05:03 PM	#1
Lansquenet59 Member Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: France Posts: 132	17th German burgonet Hi, Here is a burgonet that I just had recently, probably German, I spotted a small marking of 3 points on the visor, it can be the marking of an arsenal? Attached Images

27th January 2021, 04:55 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Places you see them are in early 'cannonry' as in these two of mine. . Attached Images

27th January 2021, 07:05 PM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	And four dots . . Attached Images

28th January 2021, 08:52 PM	#10
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 695	These dot marks seem to appear on a variety of iron and steel items and presumably used to identify production batches (i.e. some sort of batch mark?). I have seen similar dots on cast iron pans in the US. It may have been used to identify the maker in a workshop shared by several smiths, or to show for which end customer it was intended. Probably the mark was intended for internal use only. Then there are dots on sword blades which seem to have some sort of decorative and mystic/superstitious/religious meaning as Fernando alluded to. We discussed it previously here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...&page=10&pp=30. There’s something here in post #20 as well. But I don’t think these are related to batch marks: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22313. Last edited by Victrix; 28th January 2021 at 09:30 PM.

26th January 2021, 05:29 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Splendid,Thomas . The three dots; you mean those faded marks ? . Attached Images

26th January 2021, 05:42 PM	#3
Lansquenet59 Member Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: France Posts: 132	Yes Fernado

26th January 2021, 05:46 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	If they were meant to be marks, they would be more visible (deeper) ?

27th January 2021, 04:29 PM	#5
Lansquenet59 Member Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: France Posts: 132	You are probably right Fernando. I thought I already had these 3 points somewhere, but I could be wrong.

28th January 2021, 05:40 PM	#8
Lansquenet59 Member Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: France Posts: 132	But what do these points mean Fernando ?

28th January 2021, 06:24 PM	#9
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I don't recall anyone establishing their precise purpose. I would take it as a decoration, maybe sometimes with a mystic intent, but not a smith mark or 'signature'. You can see them in weapons as early as from the XVI century (if not earlier); sometimes added to other symbols but so often alone. You can see them also in number of four. Maybe more knowledge members know more about this suject.

29th January 2021, 06:00 PM	#11
Lansquenet59 Member Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: France Posts: 132	And maybe a quality control? We may never know....

29th January 2021, 06:42 PM	#12
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I don't think so; a quality control mark would be restricted to certain type of things and to a determined area; not to say to a speficic arsenal.These dots appear 'everywhere'; so more consistent with decoration, mysticism, religion, exoterism ... pick one .