Balinese bilah pamor

[Anthony G.]

Please help to identify the pamor of this Balinese bilah. Thank you.

[Jean]

Balinese?? Please show us the full blade.
Regards

[Anthony G.]

Attached as requested.

[Marcokeris]

IMO: sumsum buron

[Jean]

Thank you Antony and the blade looks in Balinese or Lombok style indeed and to have some age.
Sumsum Buron is a rare Javanese pamor pattern and it does not look very similar to this one (it has 2 versions) but I can't identify it better, may be pamor Srante but only a Balinese expert could confirm it with some certainty.
Regards

[A. G. Maisey]

and then the next Balinese expert we found would give it a different name

[Rick]

Alan, you have hit upon my greatest frustration with 'kerisology' ; for me it is like trying to hold a shelless egg.

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes Rick, you are right, but it makes perfect sense if you are Javanese, and maybe for some other people too.

It is a general principle of Javanese communication that when you say something, it means precisely what you intend it to mean, no more, and no less. How the person receiving the message interprets what you are saying is up to him.

Javanese people in my experience are not good, nor effective letter writers, but they do communicate very well in a face to face situation. This is because at least half of all interpersonal communication with Javanese people is through body language.

It is a general principle of Javanese culture & society that the more meanings you can give to any one thing, the better. The true meaning will be obvious to the person who has the right or the need to understand , to others the understanding they gain will be in accordance with their level of knowledge or need.

Now this does not mean that only one person or idea can be correct, rather, it means that everybody can be correct, depending upon their own individual perspective.

Names are not particularly important, understanding is.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

and then the next Balinese expert we found would give it a different name

Yes Alan, I agree. Would you be able to confirm that this blade is from Bali or Lombok, or made by somebody from another culture (Java or Madura) but in Balinese style?
Regards

[A. G. Maisey]

No Jean, I could not confirm too much from the photos. Yes, it certainly looks like Bali, that I can confirm, but whether Bali or Lombok or Madura, sorry no idea, and frankly, even if i had it my hand I'd only be guessing.

Bali blades from Madura are not something that is only recent, as far as I know Bali was getting work done in Madura long, long ago, and still is.

Current Balinese makers will work together with both Jawa makers and Madura makers.

When a blade is already complete and particularly if it has a bit of age and what appears to be original dress, it is probably impossible to know exactly where something was made.

[Jean]

Thank you Alan, and this is a typical case of frustration as mentioned by Rick.
Obviously I cannot tell either, I just observe that the surface finish and the pamor pattern do not look typical of old Balinese blades.
Regards

[Anthony G.]

thank you all for the advice

[Anthony G.]

Originally Posted by Anthony G.

thank you all for the advice

My friend refers to a lombok book and told me this is Pamor Rante

[Interested Party]

Originally Posted by Anthony G.

My friend refers to a lombok book and told me this is Pamor Rante

Lombok book?

[Jean]

Originally Posted by Anthony G.

My friend refers to a lombok book and told me this is Pamor Rante

Yes, I had the same guess probably based on the same book (pamor Rante in Lombok or Srante in Bali, although they may be slightly different).
Regards

[Anthony G.]

Originally Posted by Jean

Yes, I had the same guess probably based on the same book (pamor Rante in Lombok or Srante in Bali, although they may be slightly different).
Regards

Indeed. This is thy book.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by Interested Party

Lombok book?

Book "Keris di Lombok" by Ir Lalu Djelenga (a reference book published in 2000, very difficult to find nowadays).
Regards

[Jean]

Originally Posted by Anthony G.

Indeed. This is thy book.

Others may have identified the pamor pattern of the blade shown in the Lombok book as Bendo Sagodo. In Bali pamor Srante is also called Uler Lulut. Difficult question....