Old? Khukuri with kora hilt

kronckew · 28th April 2006, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manolo

The welding does give it away...what does genuine Nepali work in this style look like? Do the kora hilts still carry Indian-tulwar-like disks?
Would this modern hilt be an attempt to make the khukri seem older or are such hilts still an option subject to local preference?

Manolo

they are still occasionally making special run kukh's with similar style grips, but workmanship is generally better. Himalayan Imports Version: see Linky

that multipoint star on the grip would have failed me in shop class, the overcuts are really poor.

original talwar hilted kukhri, note v-notch in scabbard to fit hilt, something to look for in originals: Linky from BladeForums Kukhri subforum

Ferguson · 28th April 2006, 04:52 PM

I agree with everyone that the hilt was changed at some time after the khukuri was originally made. I also agree that the workmanship of the hilt is less than the original. The only thing I don't see, is any evidence of electric welding, either arc, mig, or tig. I suspect it was done by a metalworker in India, Nepal, or a similar area. The cylindrical part of the hilt does seem to be a piece of manufactured tubing of some sort. I can't tell if the seam is brazed or not welded at all, but it doesn't look electric welded.

It's a shame.

Steve

Emanuel · 28th April 2006, 07:28 PM

Many thanks for the explanations and links. The bolster as seen on the 7th picture seemes to show welding, and the tube handle showes signs as well. It really is sad that the hilt makers abused the knife so terribly. I like the blade on this one, in its original state it might have been aven more of a beauty.
How "comfortable" were the genuine kora hilts? It seems to me that the bottom disk would dig into the wrist no?
Regards,
Manolo

not2sharp · 28th April 2006, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manolo

Many thanks for the explanations and links. The bolster as seen on the 7th picture seemes to show welding, and the tube handle showes signs as well. It really is sad that the hilt makers abused the knife so terribly. I like the blade on this one, in its original state it might have been aven more of a beauty.
How "comfortable" were the genuine kora hilts? It seems to me that the bottom disk would dig into the wrist no?
Regards,
Manolo

They can be comfortable to use. The bottom disk will rest up against the base of the hand, to help keep the grip from sliding around. But, the ones I have seen have been a bit small for me. This one looks like it was made for larger hands.

ariel · 28th April 2006, 10:55 PM

I have 3 Koras, with handles of different size: from slightly tight to very roomy.
No fine movements are possible. No movement with the exception of brute hacking is possible, as a matter of fact. And on top of that, when the hacking arm is ~ halfway down and the wrist is abducted, the upper disk bites into the fleshy part of the hand. It hurts.
The bottom line: if you are arming yourself for a battle, do your best to avoid being issued a Kora.
Get an AK-47 with a bayonet.

spiral · 29th April 2006, 11:50 AM

Heres a few points about kora/kukris & this grip.

Gurkhas hands are much finer boned/ smaller than most western hands.

If you are born in a shack most of you woulndnt consider fit for a garden shed, Living with your parents , sick grandmother & 7 siblings & a load of chikens half way up a mountain in Nepal, without carpet, matresss, windows etc. where you have to descend a ravine of 2000 or 3000 feet evry morning just to get your water to drink your concepts of comfort may be somewhat different that us who live in what would be beyond the dreams of luxery to most Gurkhas of yesteryear.

The concept of hanging onto your weapon in battle would be a greater priority than comfort to them.

.But sure I think the kora was comfterable & usefull as far as they were concerned.

Some western Perceptions of the tecniques used with kora may not be based how the Gurkhas percied their use. Personly I find them quite usefull & would not find them awkward to use if neccasary. Lateral thinking & all that.

AK47 is better

but its bayonet is a better wire cutter than weapon.

Whoever made that "kora" handle, couldnt make a blade remotly like that. It exhibits no forging, its an assembly of junk from a scrap bin & exhibits nill knife workmanship skills.

Having had a closer look, Steve is right it is not welded but it does exhibit clear evidence of Brazing. Originals would also be brazed, but that sure isnt one of them.

Lots of modern fake Tulwar handle kukri in Nepal & India for sale, But they are made by kami. {still tourist junk though.}

N2S Has the best example of a genuine one I have seen in the west so far.

Spiral.

ariel · 29th April 2006, 02:11 PM

Don't underestimate the bayonet: the Brits in India proved it's advantage over a sword. After all, it is a spear. Parrying sword cuts with the rifle is quite easy and you can use both ends: the blade and the butt. Bayonet routines were quite developed and in close quarters it is a tremendously useful weapon.
As for the fine-boned Ghurkas, I asked my daughter to wield a Kora: the upper disk still bit into the wrist and she was very uncomfortable. Perhaps, there are some esthetic or other reasons for the construction of Kora's handle (just like Tulwar's), but mechanically it is awkward becase it prevents full abduction of the wrist joint. With a Kora, no movement except for a wide-arc hacking is possible. And, as they say in fencing , "It's all in the wrist"

The best sword handle for a one-hand grip from the mechanical point of view is Polish "hussar" saber: the thumb ring switches the axis in such a way that the blade becomes an extension of the forearm. Old fencing swords had a molded handle requiring a two-finger control of the blade but the introduction of "pistol" grips gave an incredible advantage, which is based on the same principle as the thumb-ring handles.
Swords are neat mechanical contraptions and were improved upon for milennia. Koras adhered to old traditions far too long and missed the path of progress (if one defines progress as a more effective way of chopping your fellow human being to pieces).

28th April 2006, 04:52 PM	#2
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	I agree with everyone that the hilt was changed at some time after the khukuri was originally made. I also agree that the workmanship of the hilt is less than the original. The only thing I don't see, is any evidence of electric welding, either arc, mig, or tig. I suspect it was done by a metalworker in India, Nepal, or a similar area. The cylindrical part of the hilt does seem to be a piece of manufactured tubing of some sort. I can't tell if the seam is brazed or not welded at all, but it doesn't look electric welded. It's a shame. Steve

28th April 2006, 07:28 PM	#3
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Many thanks for the explanations and links. The bolster as seen on the 7th picture seemes to show welding, and the tube handle showes signs as well. It really is sad that the hilt makers abused the knife so terribly. I like the blade on this one, in its original state it might have been aven more of a beauty. How "comfortable" were the genuine kora hilts? It seems to me that the bottom disk would dig into the wrist no? Regards, Manolo

28th April 2006, 10:55 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I have 3 Koras, with handles of different size: from slightly tight to very roomy. No fine movements are possible. No movement with the exception of brute hacking is possible, as a matter of fact. And on top of that, when the hacking arm is ~ halfway down and the wrist is abducted, the upper disk bites into the fleshy part of the hand. It hurts. The bottom line: if you are arming yourself for a battle, do your best to avoid being issued a Kora. Get an AK-47 with a bayonet.

29th April 2006, 11:50 AM	#6
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Heres a few points about kora/kukris & this grip. Gurkhas hands are much finer boned/ smaller than most western hands. If you are born in a shack most of you woulndnt consider fit for a garden shed, Living with your parents , sick grandmother & 7 siblings & a load of chikens half way up a mountain in Nepal, without carpet, matresss, windows etc. where you have to descend a ravine of 2000 or 3000 feet evry morning just to get your water to drink your concepts of comfort may be somewhat different that us who live in what would be beyond the dreams of luxery to most Gurkhas of yesteryear. The concept of hanging onto your weapon in battle would be a greater priority than comfort to them. .But sure I think the kora was comfterable & usefull as far as they were concerned. Some western Perceptions of the tecniques used with kora may not be based how the Gurkhas percied their use. Personly I find them quite usefull & would not find them awkward to use if neccasary. Lateral thinking & all that. AK47 is better but its bayonet is a better wire cutter than weapon. Whoever made that "kora" handle, couldnt make a blade remotly like that. It exhibits no forging, its an assembly of junk from a scrap bin & exhibits nill knife workmanship skills. Having had a closer look, Steve is right it is not welded but it does exhibit clear evidence of Brazing. Originals would also be brazed, but that sure isnt one of them. Lots of modern fake Tulwar handle kukri in Nepal & India for sale, But they are made by kami. {still tourist junk though.} N2S Has the best example of a genuine one I have seen in the west so far. Spiral.

29th April 2006, 02:11 PM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Don't underestimate the bayonet: the Brits in India proved it's advantage over a sword. After all, it is a spear. Parrying sword cuts with the rifle is quite easy and you can use both ends: the blade and the butt. Bayonet routines were quite developed and in close quarters it is a tremendously useful weapon. As for the fine-boned Ghurkas, I asked my daughter to wield a Kora: the upper disk still bit into the wrist and she was very uncomfortable. Perhaps, there are some esthetic or other reasons for the construction of Kora's handle (just like Tulwar's), but mechanically it is awkward becase it prevents full abduction of the wrist joint. With a Kora, no movement except for a wide-arc hacking is possible. And, as they say in fencing , "It's all in the wrist" The best sword handle for a one-hand grip from the mechanical point of view is Polish "hussar" saber: the thumb ring switches the axis in such a way that the blade becomes an extension of the forearm. Old fencing swords had a molded handle requiring a two-finger control of the blade but the introduction of "pistol" grips gave an incredible advantage, which is based on the same principle as the thumb-ring handles. Swords are neat mechanical contraptions and were improved upon for milennia. Koras adhered to old traditions far too long and missed the path of progress (if one defines progress as a more effective way of chopping your fellow human being to pieces).