See Swap Forum about ivory

Jens Nordlunde · 14th July 2018, 05:22 PM

Ian has a huge problem, and what I did not know is, that it is not only world wide, it covers all and each of the states of the US.
I am really sorry it has come so far, but I think the different states world wide react in a wrong way. In stead of dreaming up a lot of new laws, they should help to stop the killing where the animals live.

Ian, I am truly sorry to hear about your problems, and I do hope they will be solved. Also I believe it must be painful for you, to part with weapons collected over the years.

Thank you for explaning the problem as clear as you did.

Did you know that the African ivory was prefered in India, as it was harder than the Indian ivory?

Rick · 14th July 2018, 06:20 PM

Yes Jens; I liken US laws to a blunderbuss; they achieve the purpose but the collateral damage is quite large and innocent people are hurt as a result.

Ian · 14th July 2018, 08:23 PM

Jens:

Thank you for the kind words and condolences. I am losing parts of my collection that I put together over a period of 30+ years. I have explored many avenues legally, and came up empty. There is a real need for low cost CITES certificate programs to facilitate legitimate trade in antique ivory items. That is extremely unlikely to happen in today's marketplace.

I had considered donating my pieces to a museum, but there are few in my state and none were in interested in acquiring them for nothing. Another possibility was to remove the ivory and replace it with wood. In doing so, I would have destroyed the original antique craftsmanship and created something that was not consistent with the culture.

My preference is for them to find a new and appreciative home among collectors in my state. As for being upset about the situation in the U.S., I'm beyond feeling angry and am resigned to the fact that I must move them on. I hope that I can find a good home for each one and recover my initial investment. I'm not trying to sell them for what might be current market value because there may soon be no market at all for ivory-containing items and it would be unfair to the buyer to charge him a premium price. I would like them to be appreciated for the fine cultural items they are.

On the brighter side, these are a small part of my collection and I have many more dha, etc. that do not have any ivory and can be fussed over and appreciated. True happiness comes from wanting what I have not from having what I want.

Ian.

Jens Nordlunde · 14th July 2018, 10:02 PM

Ian,
The way you look at it makes me take my hat off to you, as I would have been quite angry.l
However things are as they are, so the soft heads in the different parliments dont understand anything - sorry if this was too political, but it is meant broadly.
Does anyone contact their congeressman to tell him to do something about this?
I know that Robert Elgood did, and according to what he told me, the English did send troops to Africa to help catching the shooters.
I am not one to tell you what to do - but please do what you can.

Lee · 20th July 2018, 03:06 AM

Here is an interesting article on the status of antique ivory from earlier in the year.

I would hope that no one here would donate to any of those NGOs promoting such extreme restrictions on bona fide antique ivory and rhino horn. Hopefully some court will eventually recognize that this is an unreasonable seizure of the value of a person's property without legitimate cause and will force the regulations be better focused on legitimate targets.

14th July 2018, 05:22 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	See Swap Forum about ivory Ian has a huge problem, and what I did not know is, that it is not only world wide, it covers all and each of the states of the US. I am really sorry it has come so far, but I think the different states world wide react in a wrong way. In stead of dreaming up a lot of new laws, they should help to stop the killing where the animals live. Ian, I am truly sorry to hear about your problems, and I do hope they will be solved. Also I believe it must be painful for you, to part with weapons collected over the years. Thank you for explaning the problem as clear as you did. Did you know that the African ivory was prefered in India, as it was harder than the Indian ivory?

14th July 2018, 06:20 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Yes Jens; I liken US laws to a blunderbuss; they achieve the purpose but the collateral damage is quite large and innocent people are hurt as a result.

14th July 2018, 08:23 PM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,203	Jens: Thank you for the kind words and condolences. I am losing parts of my collection that I put together over a period of 30+ years. I have explored many avenues legally, and came up empty. There is a real need for low cost CITES certificate programs to facilitate legitimate trade in antique ivory items. That is extremely unlikely to happen in today's marketplace. I had considered donating my pieces to a museum, but there are few in my state and none were in interested in acquiring them for nothing. Another possibility was to remove the ivory and replace it with wood. In doing so, I would have destroyed the original antique craftsmanship and created something that was not consistent with the culture. My preference is for them to find a new and appreciative home among collectors in my state. As for being upset about the situation in the U.S., I'm beyond feeling angry and am resigned to the fact that I must move them on. I hope that I can find a good home for each one and recover my initial investment. I'm not trying to sell them for what might be current market value because there may soon be no market at all for ivory-containing items and it would be unfair to the buyer to charge him a premium price. I would like them to be appreciated for the fine cultural items they are. On the brighter side, these are a small part of my collection and I have many more dha, etc. that do not have any ivory and can be fussed over and appreciated. True happiness comes from wanting what I have not from having what I want. Ian.

14th July 2018, 10:02 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Ian, The way you look at it makes me take my hat off to you, as I would have been quite angry.l However things are as they are, so the soft heads in the different parliments dont understand anything - sorry if this was too political, but it is meant broadly. Does anyone contact their congeressman to tell him to do something about this? I know that Robert Elgood did, and according to what he told me, the English did send troops to Africa to help catching the shooters. I am not one to tell you what to do - but please do what you can.

20th July 2018, 03:06 AM	#5
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 914	Here is an interesting article on the status of antique ivory from earlier in the year. I would hope that no one here would donate to any of those NGOs promoting such extreme restrictions on bona fide antique ivory and rhino horn. Hopefully some court will eventually recognize that this is an unreasonable seizure of the value of a person's property without legitimate cause and will force the regulations be better focused on legitimate targets.