16th Century German Sword

PClemente · 6th February 2018, 12:07 AM

Hey Gents,
I just acquired a German side sword circa 1580 and wanted some opinions.
The blade is approximately 30” long bearing “IHS” on one side and “MARIA” on the other side. The hilt is pretty sound and solid featuring swept quillions and the original wooden grip. Overall I think a nice example. My one hesitation is that there seems a very old break at the base of the downward quillion where it appears there was another “extension.” In closer examination it seems the damage was during the sword’s working life as the patina and wear over the “break” is consistent with the rest of the sword.
So what do you think overall about this damage?
Does it compromise the sword or is it just wear and tear from a 400 year old weapon? The hilt appears to be one solid piece but is a chance of later repair?

Thanks for any input!

kronckew · 6th February 2018, 12:55 AM

any photos of the whole sword?

PClemente · 6th February 2018, 01:20 AM

Yep - trying to get right size
Here they are😃👍

fernando · 6th February 2018, 04:24 PM

A very interesting sword you have there, Clemente.
It would be nice to see the whole blade. Isn't 30" a bit short for this type of swords; could it have been shortened ? ... just saying

.
Your first picture is rather unfocused; difficult to discern the repair you mention. While there seems to be another repair furher down ... or is it my eyes ?

.

kronckew · 6th February 2018, 04:31 PM

That looks like a right angle turn in the finger guard loop there. maybe a hammer welded repair after it was hit, or maybe just a reinforcing of the transition. The rest of the guard branches look hand forged too, and a bit uneven in diameter here and there. a soldier's blade, not a high noble's, IMHO...

30" for an infantry sword isn't bad, it's not a long thrusting only civilian rapier yet, a longer sword could hit the ground during a cut with disastrous consequences. especially at the average height of the period...

fernando · 6th February 2018, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

... 30" for an infantry sword isn't bad, it's not a long thrusting only civilian rapier yet, a longer sword could hit the ground during a cut with disastrous consequences. especially at the average height of the period...

I reckon i wansn't thinking infantry, but looking at my swept hilts, right in front of me, which are considerably longer ... as are practically all my swords.

kronckew · 6th February 2018, 05:57 PM

my side sword is about that length, but we can't mention it here.

so i won't.

PClemente · 6th February 2018, 06:05 PM

Hey Lads,
Here are more detailed photos of the exact area I was thinking where the guard intersects the quillion.
What do you think of this spot?

Thanks Again!

kronckew · 6th February 2018, 06:15 PM

Aha! is seee the feature fernando was looking at, it's not another repair. he was seeing it at the wrong angle it that projection i've marked....looks like a lump head on. where he circled it in yellow.

the bit you point to with the ballpoint could be a broken off projection or could have been made like that, still looks a bit blurry to me. If it was broken off, it'd likely have a grainy break surface, with sharp edges, but could have been filed or worn smoother over time. it could have connected elsewhere on the guard, and be smoothed down there too. a field repair?

i have a late 18c french dragoon sword modified or repaired for US continentals that has a branch removed & smoothed to where it is barely perceptible to the eye, but you can feel it a bit lumpy there. anyway, the minor defects add character and improve the story...

PClemente · 6th February 2018, 08:21 PM

Sorry for the confusion.
I circled the point that I was referring to.
What do you think of this area!

THanks Gents!

fernando · 6th February 2018, 08:47 PM

Yes, it sure looks like is missing a part ... or more

.

6th February 2018, 12:07 AM	#1
PClemente Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 42	16th Century German Sword Hey Gents, I just acquired a German side sword circa 1580 and wanted some opinions. The blade is approximately 30” long bearing “IHS” on one side and “MARIA” on the other side. The hilt is pretty sound and solid featuring swept quillions and the original wooden grip. Overall I think a nice example. My one hesitation is that there seems a very old break at the base of the downward quillion where it appears there was another “extension.” In closer examination it seems the damage was during the sword’s working life as the patina and wear over the “break” is consistent with the rest of the sword. So what do you think overall about this damage? Does it compromise the sword or is it just wear and tear from a 400 year old weapon? The hilt appears to be one solid piece but is a chance of later repair? Thanks for any input! Attached Images

6th February 2018, 01:20 AM	#3
PClemente Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 42	Yep - trying to get right size Here they are😃👍 Attached Images

6th February 2018, 04:24 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	A very interesting sword you have there, Clemente. It would be nice to see the whole blade. Isn't 30" a bit short for this type of swords; could it have been shortened ? ... just saying . Your first picture is rather unfocused; difficult to discern the repair you mention. While there seems to be another repair furher down ... or is it my eyes ? . Attached Images

6th February 2018, 04:31 PM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	That looks like a right angle turn in the finger guard loop there. maybe a hammer welded repair after it was hit, or maybe just a reinforcing of the transition. The rest of the guard branches look hand forged too, and a bit uneven in diameter here and there. a soldier's blade, not a high noble's, IMHO... 30" for an infantry sword isn't bad, it's not a long thrusting only civilian rapier yet, a longer sword could hit the ground during a cut with disastrous consequences. especially at the average height of the period... Last edited by kronckew; 6th February 2018 at 04:45 PM.

6th February 2018, 06:05 PM	#8
PClemente Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 42	Hey Lads, Here are more detailed photos of the exact area I was thinking where the guard intersects the quillion. What do you think of this spot? Thanks Again! Attached Images

6th February 2018, 12:55 AM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	any photos of the whole sword?

6th February 2018, 05:57 PM	#7
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	my side sword is about that length, but we can't mention it here. so i won't.

6th February 2018, 06:15 PM	#9
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	Aha! is seee the feature fernando was looking at, it's not another repair. he was seeing it at the wrong angle it that projection i've marked....looks like a lump head on. where he circled it in yellow. the bit you point to with the ballpoint could be a broken off projection or could have been made like that, still looks a bit blurry to me. If it was broken off, it'd likely have a grainy break surface, with sharp edges, but could have been filed or worn smoother over time. it could have connected elsewhere on the guard, and be smoothed down there too. a field repair? i have a late 18c french dragoon sword modified or repaired for US continentals that has a branch removed & smoothed to where it is barely perceptible to the eye, but you can feel it a bit lumpy there. anyway, the minor defects add character and improve the story... Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 6th February 2018 at 06:38 PM.

6th February 2018, 08:21 PM	#10
PClemente Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 42	Sorry for the confusion. I circled the point that I was referring to. What do you think of this area! THanks Gents! Attached Images

6th February 2018, 08:47 PM	#11
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Yes, it sure looks like is missing a part ... or more .