Cavalry sabre for comments

Skarts_ss · 22nd December 2017, 12:47 PM

Hi all,
i would like your opinions on this sabre please...

fernando · 22nd December 2017, 06:38 PM

No more marks, Skarts; only that one in the scabbard ?
Can you post measurements ?

Skarts_ss · 22nd December 2017, 08:48 PM

no marks at all. The blade is 91cm and it is not sharpened. Could it be an export blade?

Skarts_ss · 22nd December 2017, 08:54 PM

....

Skarts_ss · 22nd December 2017, 08:55 PM

...

Skarts_ss · 24th December 2017, 01:16 PM

Any opinions? No one? Could it be fake?

fernando · 24th December 2017, 06:07 PM

Certainly not a fake. I wonder why no one shows up with comments.

Victrix · 24th December 2017, 10:35 PM

It’s Christmas Eve.

M ELEY · 25th December 2017, 02:19 AM

I am REALLY going out on a limb here, as this isn't my forte. I find it interesting that the bars of the guard are attached as they are...almost braised. This sword has the general appearance of many of the mid-19th century German style swords, but why the 'roughness' of the bars? I am not insulting the sword and actually am quite fascinated why it would appear this way. It got me to wondering if there is any chance that this might be a Confederate sword import from Germany?

Follow me down the rabbit hole a bit. The Southern States were desperate for weapons at that time, as they lacked the industrial complexes of the north. Many swords used by the Rebs were from earlier conflicts (Mexican War swords, refurbished Virginia Arsenal swords dating to the early 19th c.). Others were imports, like the British Mole m1850. Some very fine officer's swords of French and German make, were made for the South. Likewise, so called 'dog river' swords used parts and pieces from what was available to refurbish European blades and grips with often primitive knuckle bows and bars.

Things that often point a finger at a POSSIBLE Confederate used sword are weapons with poor forging lines, blades shorter than scabbards, odd unidentified maker's markings, etc. If this were simply a European/German sword, it seems like it would have regiment stamps, rack markings, troop numbers, etc. Its complete lack of any marking (with the exception of the vague punch to the scabbard) make me wonder. I once owned a dog-river m1860 pattern cavalry sword with scabbard, sold to me as a Union piece. The scabbard fittings were brass, the bars on the hilt look like these and the blade was too short for the scabbard.

I am not a 19th c. collector and don't pretend to know much. All I'm saying is it might be worth your while to do some research on rebel weapons. Most have the standard m1840/m1860 general appearance, but I've seen fine Confederate officer's swords French made with swirling bars, Stygian helmet pommels, etc. I've seen very German looking swords used by the Rebs as well. Indeed, some of the German makers directly made for the South.

OK, that's my two cents...Let's see what others might have to offer.

Skarts_ss · 26th December 2017, 08:01 AM

M ELEY thanks for your reply. All these you say are very possible offcourse but maybe we can place this theory somewhere in the balkans. trying to find out if this sword was used by Greek or Ottoman cavalry in late 19th early 20th c. I think that Greece used different types of sabres for cavalry then. For this sabre i mention here it is obvious that the guard and the grip dont match on this blede...

M ELEY · 26th December 2017, 01:12 PM

Opps! Guess I should have asked the origin and region of where this sword was found/came from! Oh well, just a guess-

22nd December 2017, 12:47 PM	#1
Skarts_ss Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 47	Cavalry sabre for comments Hi all, i would like your opinions on this sabre please... Attached Images

22nd December 2017, 08:54 PM	#4
Skarts_ss Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 47	.... Attached Images

22nd December 2017, 08:55 PM	#5
Skarts_ss Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 47	... Attached Images

22nd December 2017, 06:38 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	No more marks, Skarts; only that one in the scabbard ? Can you post measurements ?

22nd December 2017, 08:48 PM	#3
Skarts_ss Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 47	no marks at all. The blade is 91cm and it is not sharpened. Could it be an export blade?

24th December 2017, 01:16 PM	#6
Skarts_ss Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 47	Any opinions? No one? Could it be fake?

24th December 2017, 06:07 PM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Certainly not a fake. I wonder why no one shows up with comments.

24th December 2017, 10:35 PM	#8
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 711	It’s Christmas Eve.

25th December 2017, 02:19 AM	#9
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	I am REALLY going out on a limb here, as this isn't my forte. I find it interesting that the bars of the guard are attached as they are...almost braised. This sword has the general appearance of many of the mid-19th century German style swords, but why the 'roughness' of the bars? I am not insulting the sword and actually am quite fascinated why it would appear this way. It got me to wondering if there is any chance that this might be a Confederate sword import from Germany? Follow me down the rabbit hole a bit. The Southern States were desperate for weapons at that time, as they lacked the industrial complexes of the north. Many swords used by the Rebs were from earlier conflicts (Mexican War swords, refurbished Virginia Arsenal swords dating to the early 19th c.). Others were imports, like the British Mole m1850. Some very fine officer's swords of French and German make, were made for the South. Likewise, so called 'dog river' swords used parts and pieces from what was available to refurbish European blades and grips with often primitive knuckle bows and bars. Things that often point a finger at a POSSIBLE Confederate used sword are weapons with poor forging lines, blades shorter than scabbards, odd unidentified maker's markings, etc. If this were simply a European/German sword, it seems like it would have regiment stamps, rack markings, troop numbers, etc. Its complete lack of any marking (with the exception of the vague punch to the scabbard) make me wonder. I once owned a dog-river m1860 pattern cavalry sword with scabbard, sold to me as a Union piece. The scabbard fittings were brass, the bars on the hilt look like these and the blade was too short for the scabbard. I am not a 19th c. collector and don't pretend to know much. All I'm saying is it might be worth your while to do some research on rebel weapons. Most have the standard m1840/m1860 general appearance, but I've seen fine Confederate officer's swords French made with swirling bars, Stygian helmet pommels, etc. I've seen very German looking swords used by the Rebs as well. Indeed, some of the German makers directly made for the South. OK, that's my two cents...Let's see what others might have to offer.

26th December 2017, 08:01 AM	#10
Skarts_ss Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 47	M ELEY thanks for your reply. All these you say are very possible offcourse but maybe we can place this theory somewhere in the balkans. trying to find out if this sword was used by Greek or Ottoman cavalry in late 19th early 20th c. I think that Greece used different types of sabres for cavalry then. For this sabre i mention here it is obvious that the guard and the grip dont match on this blede...

26th December 2017, 01:12 PM	#11
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	Opps! Guess I should have asked the origin and region of where this sword was found/came from! Oh well, just a guess-