Cirebon or Sunda sword? Opinion requested!

Sajen · 24th June 2017, 10:00 PM

Have gotten a very nice laminated Cirebon or Sunda sword, I am unsure about this, maybe someone will be able to tell me the exact origin. The scabbard fittings and handle ferrule are from silver, the Makara handle is from wood with inlaid eyes but sadly missing it's crown which was maybe from silver as well. The sword is 81 cm long in it's scabbard, blade length 63 cm and the blade is 10 mm thick near the handle.
All comments are very welcome!

Sajen · 24th June 2017, 10:16 PM

Some more pictures

kai · 25th June 2017, 12:56 AM

Hello Detlef,

Congrats, a very nice piece, indeed! Let me know if you ever get bored with it...

I'd go with a generic Sunda attribution - I'm not convinced that it is possible to identify specific Cirebon features with swords that apparently had a pretty wide distribution probably including Sunda-influenced areas in southern Sumatra.

I'd guess that the "crown" was a flat or slightly embossed piece of silver. Not sure how it was attached traditionally - looks like it was merely glued in this case?

BTW, I'd love to see this blade etched!

Regards,
Kai

danny1976 · 25th June 2017, 01:09 AM

Hi Detlef ,

Nice one !
I will stay on the safe side also with the origin of this sword , West Java / Sunda

danny1976 · 25th June 2017, 01:18 AM

Here is a simmilar hilt on a Sunda sword i have ( bad photo )

Sajen · 25th June 2017, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Congrats, a very nice piece, indeed! Let me know if you ever get bored with it...

Thank you Kai! Will inform you when I ever get bored with it but this can need a long time!

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

I'd go with a generic Sunda attribution - I'm not convinced that it is possible to identify specific Cirebon features with swords that apparently had a pretty wide distribution probably including Sunda-influenced areas in southern Sumatra.

I suspect that you are correct by this point but have hoped that someone would be able to distinguish between this both areas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

I'd guess that the "crown" was a flat or slightly embossed piece of silver. Not sure how it was attached traditionally - looks like it was merely glued in this case?

Agree with you that it was a silver crown and yes, it seems that it was only glued, there are no holes for pins visible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

BTW, I'd love to see this blade etched!

I am as well like some other blades from my collection but there is some more polishing needed. In the moment I am happy that all surface rust is removed.

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 25th June 2017, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danny1976

Nice one !
I will stay on the safe side also with the origin of this sword , West Java / Sunda

Hi Danny, thank you as well! Would you like to show us the complete sword?

Best,
Detlef

danny1976 · 25th June 2017, 05:48 PM

Hi Detlef ,

Here the complete sword , simple one .
And also a photo of a scabbard tip from a Sunda parang .
It has the same leaf motive

Regards,
Danny

Sajen · 26th June 2017, 11:17 AM

Thank you Danny, it's every time good to see other examples! It seems that you like I am in need to clean blades!

From which other Sunda sword are the close up from the scabbard fittings in silver?

Regards,
Detlef

Gavin Nugent · 26th June 2017, 11:51 AM

I'd always thought these to be Sunda sword.

Here is another carved hilt type. The blade on this example carries a keris feature, a kembang kacang.

Gavin

Sajen · 26th June 2017, 02:58 PM

Hello Gavin,

yes, a typical early Sunda hilt. I think that we can say that Cirebon is culturally intimately connected with Sunda.
Can we see the blade please?

Regards,
Detlef

24th June 2017, 10:00 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,797	Cirebon or Sunda sword? Opinion requested! Have gotten a very nice laminated Cirebon or Sunda sword, I am unsure about this, maybe someone will be able to tell me the exact origin. The scabbard fittings and handle ferrule are from silver, the Makara handle is from wood with inlaid eyes but sadly missing it's crown which was maybe from silver as well. The sword is 81 cm long in it's scabbard, blade length 63 cm and the blade is 10 mm thick near the handle. All comments are very welcome! Attached Images Last edited by Sajen; 24th June 2017 at 10:13 PM.

24th June 2017, 10:16 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,797	Some more pictures Attached Images

25th June 2017, 01:18 AM	#5
danny1976 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Holland Posts: 245	Here is a simmilar hilt on a Sunda sword i have ( bad photo ) Attached Images

25th June 2017, 05:48 PM	#8
danny1976 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Holland Posts: 245	Hi Detlef , Here the complete sword , simple one . And also a photo of a scabbard tip from a Sunda parang . It has the same leaf motive Regards, Danny Attached Images

26th June 2017, 11:51 AM	#10
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	I'd always thought these to be Sunda sword. Here is another carved hilt type. The blade on this example carries a keris feature, a kembang kacang. Gavin Attached Images

25th June 2017, 12:56 AM	#3
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Detlef, Congrats, a very nice piece, indeed! Let me know if you ever get bored with it... I'd go with a generic Sunda attribution - I'm not convinced that it is possible to identify specific Cirebon features with swords that apparently had a pretty wide distribution probably including Sunda-influenced areas in southern Sumatra. I'd guess that the "crown" was a flat or slightly embossed piece of silver. Not sure how it was attached traditionally - looks like it was merely glued in this case? BTW, I'd love to see this blade etched! Regards, Kai

25th June 2017, 01:09 AM	#4
danny1976 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Holland Posts: 245	Hi Detlef , Nice one ! I will stay on the safe side also with the origin of this sword , West Java / Sunda

26th June 2017, 11:17 AM	#9
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,797	Thank you Danny, it's every time good to see other examples! It seems that you like I am in need to clean blades! From which other Sunda sword are the close up from the scabbard fittings in silver? Regards, Detlef

26th June 2017, 02:58 PM	#11
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,797	Hello Gavin, yes, a typical early Sunda hilt. I think that we can say that Cirebon is culturally intimately connected with Sunda. Can we see the blade please? Regards, Detlef