7th May 2017, 09:22 PM | #1 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 871
|
turkish straight sword- european blade
Hello,
I just bought in an auction this interesting sword: said to be turkish ( arabic stamps ) with niello and silver(?) hilt and scabbard mounts. European blade with Pro honor et patria written ( Romanian motto ? ). What do you think ? |
7th May 2017, 09:24 PM | #2 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 871
|
looks like this ottoman sword model I found on internet ( sadly without all the precious stones !!).
|
7th May 2017, 11:02 PM | #3 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,145
|
Clever man!
and you got it for a very good price! I think it's a kind of Hungarian palash clearly with an Ottoman influence as you said. Congrats Kubur |
8th May 2017, 02:20 AM | #4 | |
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,940
|
Quote:
I think we are in accord Kubur, I just answered on the concurrent post on this on European. |
|
8th May 2017, 05:05 AM | #5 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 457
|
It's not Hungarian. Appears from the images to be Caucasian; please post closeups of the niello work on each mount and an example of the silver marks and we'll be able to nail it down
Last edited by Oliver Pinchot; 8th May 2017 at 06:42 AM. |
8th May 2017, 07:24 AM | #6 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 871
|
Hello,
thank you all ! I post it too on the european armoury forum for have informations about the engravings on the blade. I'll post other pictures of the sword and of the stamps when I'll receive it ! ( it take often a looong time ! Customs ... ) Kind regards |
8th May 2017, 08:56 AM | #7 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
|
Oliver may have a point: grips widening toward the crossguard indeed look Caucasian. Niello was done in Turkey, Iran, Greece....
He is correct, however: the markings (if any) may be hugely informative. Let's wait for the customs:-) Last edited by ariel; 8th May 2017 at 01:15 PM. |
8th May 2017, 10:02 AM | #8 | |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Sweden
Posts: 695
|
Scabbard rings
Quote:
|
|
8th May 2017, 01:14 PM | #9 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
|
Because they used baldricks.
|
8th May 2017, 03:10 PM | #10 | |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Sweden
Posts: 695
|
Quote:
|
|
10th May 2017, 02:22 PM | #11 | |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Sweden
Posts: 695
|
Quote:
https://www.antique-swords.eu/A61-18...Karabella.html |
|
12th June 2017, 04:44 PM | #12 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 871
|
Hello,
I'm still waiting the custom-authority export authorisation...they told me to wait another week... Waiting for the shipping, I was looking for this particular sword shape: oriental hilt with ''snakes'' guard and straight blade on the net. I found two wonderful swords with the ''same'' shape in two of the nine swords of the Prophet Muhammad ( now in the Topkapi Museum Istambul ) : Al-Mathur and Al-Rasub, Do this model of particular hilt and straight blade still been made in 19th-20th century in Arabia ? ( sorry for my bad english ) Attached Images |
12th June 2017, 09:35 PM | #13 | |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Arabia
Posts: 278
|
Quote:
These swords which are housed in Topkapi sport 16th century Ottoman fittings, which replaced (unfortunately) their original hilts and scabbards. They are not Arab in from. However, cross guards with upward facing quillons with snake/serpent heads seem to have appeared in the 12th Mamluk sphere of influence in the levant, and disappeared by the 16th century with the evolution of the swords of the region into sabers (early Turkish sabers) EDIT: However the blades are original 7th century blades, wootz as well, most probably made in India and imported into the Arabian Peninsula Cheers! |
|
12th June 2017, 10:17 PM | #14 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 871
|
Hello,
Thank you for you precious comments, Really interesting to learn about the ''late'' arrival of really curved blade in the 16th century in the region who is now ''the Reference''. I wonder how will look like the old mounts in Arabic region in the 6-7 century ? a T hilt shape like Al-Battar sword ? ( useful !! ) Kind Regards |
12th June 2017, 10:32 PM | #15 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 97
|
congratulations!!!
A truly beautiful sword with Ottoman influences from the depths of the time with a European blade. I believe these swords used them on the border of northern Eastern Europe influenced by the eastern technique of the Ottoman Empire and Persia. Again, congratulations. The best Stelios |
13th June 2017, 01:49 PM | #16 | |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,178
|
Quote:
two rings on either side of the scabbard near the throat as in UK swords from 1850-ish to date, allow for hanging the sword vertically from a belt or baldric while on horseback. the wearer usually also has a hook on his belt which he uses on the spine side ring to hang it in a more convenient angle while on foot. i seem to recall seeing a few scabbards that also had a third suspension ring further down the scabbard towards the chape 'drag' end, allowing for either method of suspension. |
|
28th June 2017, 12:52 PM | #17 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 871
|
Hello everybody,
I finally received my sword !!!! Long way from home !!! The hallmarks/tughras consolidate me about ottoman mounts on an old european blade. Is anybody specialised in tughras ? 19th-early 20th ? what about the age/origin of the blade ? An Old Austro-Hungarian blade ? |
|
|