Strange pistol

Kubur · 29th October 2016, 01:42 PM

Hi Guys,

I got this pistol supposed to be from Morocco.
The lock is Spanish. The shape is very close to a wheellock pistol.
It's not a decorative pistol, it's a big and heavy monster with a nice barrel too.
I'm thinking that it could be from Tangiers very close from the Spanish shores.
Any ideas? I'm sure that Rick will have something to say...
Thanks

Kubur

Oliver Pinchot · 29th October 2016, 08:59 PM

It is Moroccan, subtle differences in the form and the engraved motifs confirm it. Whether from Tangier or not is more difficult to determine.

The form is, as you say, Spanish. The reason for the lobe on the underside of the stock ahead of the trigger is that the form follows the wheellock, as you suggest. When smiths transitioned from wheellock to miquelet (a much less expensive and more reliable system,) the lobe remained for quite some time. This feature is visible on Eftihis' musket as well.
The earliest of these guns feature a miquelet lockplate which bulges at the bottom edge like a wheellock lockplate, the stock simply mirrors it. Later in its development, the lockplate is flatter along the lower edge, but the space remains and is filled with a separate plate, since the stock retains the lobe. This appears on your example. Finally, it disappears altogether and the stock likewise flattens at that point to conform to the shape of the lockplate.

See R. Held, Arms & Armour Annual, Northfiled, Digest, 1973, p. 121 for an in-depth article on this topic.

Kubur · 30th October 2016, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver Pinchot

It is Moroccan, subtle differences in the form and the engraved motifs confirm it. Whether from Tangier or not is more difficult to determine.

Thank you very much Oliver, for the references and you confirmed what i was thinking. Now how old? The pistol is in an excellent condition and I assume that he is not earlier than the 19th c. But with all these archaic features, stock, lock, trigger... I'm just wondering... I was saying Tangier because this pistol is different from the classic and less elaborate South Moroccan pistols with the Dutch lock...
Again thanks!

rickystl · 30th October 2016, 05:03 PM

Hi Kubur.

WOW!! What a beautiful pistol. Where ever did you find it ? LOL. And it appears to have not seen much use. I can't really add much to Oliver's comments. It is a really interesting confluence of styles. As mentioned, the general stock shape reflects the early wheellock pistols. The white metal overlay on the stock grip and forearm remind me of the early spanish pistols. But, as Oliver mentions, the engravings/motifs seem to confirm it's Moroccan origins. The lock is Spanish in style. A good catch by Oliver is the small decorative plate, just below the lock plate, to fill the gap at the protruded area.
It's obvious this pistol was made to a specific customer's specifications.
Great find Kubur. Wish I had seen it first.

LOL. If you have a chance, please take some more photos. Especially around the pan/vent hole area. Dating this one is difficult. Hmmm......my best guess, using the lock as a guide, might be the first quarter of the 19th Century.

Rick

Kubur · 31st October 2016, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickystl

Hi Kubur.
And it appears to have not seen much use. please take some more photos. Especially around the pan/vent hole area.
Rick

Hi Rick,
I guess your two points are linked. I will do it but I can't see any problem there. Too good and too clean to be true, but as far i can see there is nothing wrong with this pistol, just maybe a diplomatic gift? I will look closer if i can find a signature...

BANDOOK · 31st October 2016, 11:14 AM

HI KUBUR ,WHAT A BEAUTY,I LIKE IT,MAY BE MORE THAN YOU,DO THINK OF ME WHEN SHE DOES NOT LIKE YOU ANY MORE,CHEERS

29th October 2016, 01:42 PM	#1
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Strange pistol Hi Guys, I got this pistol supposed to be from Morocco. The lock is Spanish. The shape is very close to a wheellock pistol. It's not a decorative pistol, it's a big and heavy monster with a nice barrel too. I'm thinking that it could be from Tangiers very close from the Spanish shores. Any ideas? I'm sure that Rick will have something to say... Thanks Kubur Attached Images

29th October 2016, 08:59 PM	#2
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 457	It is Moroccan, subtle differences in the form and the engraved motifs confirm it. Whether from Tangier or not is more difficult to determine. The form is, as you say, Spanish. The reason for the lobe on the underside of the stock ahead of the trigger is that the form follows the wheellock, as you suggest. When smiths transitioned from wheellock to miquelet (a much less expensive and more reliable system,) the lobe remained for quite some time. This feature is visible on Eftihis' musket as well. The earliest of these guns feature a miquelet lockplate which bulges at the bottom edge like a wheellock lockplate, the stock simply mirrors it. Later in its development, the lockplate is flatter along the lower edge, but the space remains and is filled with a separate plate, since the stock retains the lobe. This appears on your example. Finally, it disappears altogether and the stock likewise flattens at that point to conform to the shape of the lockplate. See R. Held, Arms & Armour Annual, Northfiled, Digest, 1973, p. 121 for an in-depth article on this topic. Last edited by Oliver Pinchot; 29th October 2016 at 09:11 PM.

30th October 2016, 05:03 PM	#4
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Hi Kubur. WOW!! What a beautiful pistol. Where ever did you find it ? LOL. And it appears to have not seen much use. I can't really add much to Oliver's comments. It is a really interesting confluence of styles. As mentioned, the general stock shape reflects the early wheellock pistols. The white metal overlay on the stock grip and forearm remind me of the early spanish pistols. But, as Oliver mentions, the engravings/motifs seem to confirm it's Moroccan origins. The lock is Spanish in style. A good catch by Oliver is the small decorative plate, just below the lock plate, to fill the gap at the protruded area. It's obvious this pistol was made to a specific customer's specifications. Great find Kubur. Wish I had seen it first. LOL. If you have a chance, please take some more photos. Especially around the pan/vent hole area. Dating this one is difficult. Hmmm......my best guess, using the lock as a guide, might be the first quarter of the 19th Century. Rick

31st October 2016, 11:14 AM	#6
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	HI KUBUR ,WHAT A BEAUTY,I LIKE IT,MAY BE MORE THAN YOU,DO THINK OF ME WHEN SHE DOES NOT LIKE YOU ANY MORE,CHEERS