My Bugis keris

Henk · 14th October 2016, 07:37 PM

Great Bugis keris. Very nice catch. A pity the wrongko is missing.
Certainly not overcleaned. This is how a neat Bugis keris looks like.

I love it.

Jean · 15th October 2016, 08:48 AM

Hello Johan,
A good classical Bugis blade with typical pamor, probably from Sulawesi indeed. It was polished for removing the rust but there are some stains left, although not critical. As to further clean & stain it or not, I am showing one Bugis blade before and after treatment for your evaluation (with a different style of pamor and not the best example though).
Regards

Sajen · 15th October 2016, 10:52 AM

Hello Johan,

yes like said by the other before, a decent Bugis blade and not overcleaned (

) like said by Green. When this blade get further cleaned by fruit acid and get traditional etched it will look very nice like Jean has shown you. But you can let it also like this since it will be maybe a problem for you to get the blade etched. Congrats for your second keris!

Regards,
Detlef

Johan van Zyl · 15th October 2016, 10:59 AM

Jean, Green, Henk & Sajen, thank you. Yes, the wrongko is missing, as well as the buntut. I have researched what a typical Bugis keris sheath is supposed to look like, and I will have to carefully make the missing parts myself.

I am hoping my guess on the pamor being mlumah is correct. Can anyone please expand on the pamor of this blade and give further details as to pamor form and meaning?

I would think this keris falls age-wise between 1800 and 1900, with a median at about 1850. But I know this is only a guess. Do you think this guess falls within the realm of possibility?

Greetings
Johan

Gustav · 15th October 2016, 12:44 PM

Perhaps not over cleaned, yet the blade tip has been re-sharpened an is a little bit awkward now.

Sirah Cecak has received a "beump" (quotation Inspector Clouzot)

I would say, more likely Riau then Sulawesi. That Pendokok we encounter also in M. Peninsula.

kai · 15th October 2016, 09:54 PM

Hello Johan,

Welcome! That's certainly a better start to keris collecting than many out there!

BTW, what is the blade size for this keris?

19th c. seems like a good guess for this piece; it is certainly a good idea to try to obtain as much info as possible when acquiring such a piece from local sources (still remember to buy the keris rather than the story - however, if you don't ask, chances are that possibly valuable info may get lost).

I'm pretty much with Gustav here:

Quote:

Perhaps not over cleaned, yet the blade tip has been re-sharpened an is a little bit awkward now.

Sirah Cecak has received a "beump" (quotation Inspector Clouzot)

I would say, more likely Riau then Sulawesi. That Pendokok we encounter also in M. Peninsula.

The blade does look like a Riau or Malacca Straits piece and could well be from the Indonesian or the Malay coast (with likelihood being higher for eastern Sumatran regions IMHO).

This is not a blade that really asks for warangan staining like Jean's example. At least it's pretty obvious that the general approach of the originating culture was to gently repolish these blades when cleaning (and possibly staining) them. Thus, a fairly smooth blade with topographic etching is not necessarily overcleaned. However, as Gustav already pointed out, Nik does have a point in this case and I guess that a former owner did work over the blade with sandpaper and did over"polish" the exposed ridges, especially at the tip. Removing metal is something that is also commonly done in the originating culture(s) when trying to revamp an aged/worn blade; however, it needs to be done with sufficient expertise as not to look off...

Regards,
Kai

A. G. Maisey · 15th October 2016, 10:58 PM

Yes Johan, Alan will do just fine.

I'm not going to comment much on this keris.

My focus for many years has been the attempt to gain an understanding of the keris in Javanese/Balinese societies, and an understanding of the keris in these societies tends to create an opinion that places the keris in other keris bearing societies into a very different realm.

Any keris is certainly a very collectable object, and it is probable that most people who take part in this Forum are collectors, so the opinions already received, and those that may follow can be accepted as valid opinions of practicing collectors.

I will reserve my comments on this occasion.

Sajen · 15th October 2016, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johan van Zyl

I would think this keris falls age-wise between 1800 and 1900, with a median at about 1850. But I know this is only a guess. Do you think this guess falls within the realm of possibility?

Would agree! Personally I would look for the missing sampir by the biggest online auction site!

Regards,
Detlef

Jean · 16th October 2016, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johan van Zyl

Can anyone please expand on the pamor of this blade and give further details as to pamor form and meaning?

Johan

Hello Johan,
According to the Bugis Sulawesi terminology, your kris has 3 ure (pamor) patterns:
. The triangular pattern at the base is called Timpalaja (roof ridge).
. The main pattern along the blade is called Tebba Jampu.
. The frame on the edges is called Teppobaja (Wengkon in Java).
Of course these patterns are not very clear on you blade because of its polished condition, see how it would approximatively look after cleaning & warangan treatment.
And I agree that this blade could be originating from Sumatra Riau.
Regards

Johan van Zyl · 16th October 2016, 11:44 AM

Gustav, Kai & Alan have come in : I thank you also. All your judgements are of great importance to me, as I have many aspects of the keris to learn. Which saddens me that Alan has opted to withhold comment, but of course I need to respect that also, and I do.

Kai, the blade length is 12.3 inches, that's 31.2 cm.

I now have quite a few facts on the table pertaining to this keris, thanks to you all, and this prompts questions in my mind:

1 How is it that this particular blade can have the necessary visible features that enable experienced students of the keris to be able to eliminate Sulawesi as point of origin? I admire that expertise, and would like to be further enlightened on this point, if you please.

2 According to the antique dealer from whom I got this keris, the mendak is gold. He has done a test on it's mark with concentrated nitric acid and he assured me of this fact. He is a cousin, and we are on very good, amicable terms. Does this fact (if true) strike you as perhaps improbable? IOW, does the gold fit in with the class of this keris?

3 Having read what was said about the pamor, I conclude I am correct when I make it to be mlumah, and that the three patterns mentioned all fall under mlumah?

4 Of course the pattern on the ganja is miring (or so I think). If so, would that be adeg?

5 Coming to the 7 luk blade, is there any cultural distinction in terms of meaning between luk 3, 5 and 7? I know that wave counts above 7 are seen as special. Does 3, 5 and 7 each have different significance?

I appreciate your patience with my many questions!
Regards
Johan

Jean · 16th October 2016, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johan van Zyl

the blade length is 12.3 inches, that's 31.2 cm.

1 How is it that this particular blade can have the necessary visible features that enable experienced students of the keris to be able to eliminate Sulawesi as point of origin? I admire that expertise, and would like to be further enlightened on this point, if you please.

3 Having read what was said about the pamor, I conclude I am correct when I make it to be mlumah, and that the three patterns mentioned all fall under mlumah?

4 Of course the pattern on the ganja is miring (or so I think). If so, would that be adeg?

Hello Johan,
Considering the short size of the blade (31 cm long), the shape of the gandar (wide and not narrowing towards the tip), the compact shape of the hilt, and the style of pendokok, it is more likely that it originates from Riau than Sulawesi. It would have been useful to see the whole scabbard for giving a more accurate opinion.
Yes, the blade pamor type is mlumah, for the ganja it appears as miring but probably because the cut piece from the iron/pamor bar used for making it is turned 90° as compared to the blade so the pamor lines appear perpendicular to the surface (Alan, please confirm if this is correct).
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 16th October 2016, 09:20 PM

Yes Jean, the gonjo has been made in probably the most usual way, by cutting a piece of the pamor material from the forging, before the core was welded in. But we cannot call that pamor in the gonjo miring, or adeg, its still mlumah pamor, its just that we are looking at it side on, it was not manipulated in the forge.

15th October 2016, 08:48 AM	#2
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Johan, A good classical Bugis blade with typical pamor, probably from Sulawesi indeed. It was polished for removing the rust but there are some stains left, although not critical. As to further clean & stain it or not, I am showing one Bugis blade before and after treatment for your evaluation (with a different style of pamor and not the best example though). Regards Attached Images

15th October 2016, 10:59 AM	#4
Johan van Zyl Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: I live in Gordon's Bay, a village in the Western Cape Province in South Africa. Posts: 126	Jean, Green, Henk & Sajen, thank you. Yes, the wrongko is missing, as well as the buntut. I have researched what a typical Bugis keris sheath is supposed to look like, and I will have to carefully make the missing parts myself. I am hoping my guess on the pamor being mlumah is correct. Can anyone please expand on the pamor of this blade and give further details as to pamor form and meaning? I would think this keris falls age-wise between 1800 and 1900, with a median at about 1850. But I know this is only a guess. Do you think this guess falls within the realm of possibility? Greetings Johan Last edited by Johan van Zyl; 15th October 2016 at 11:16 AM.

16th October 2016, 11:44 AM	#10
Johan van Zyl Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: I live in Gordon's Bay, a village in the Western Cape Province in South Africa. Posts: 126	Gustav, Kai & Alan have come in : I thank you also. All your judgements are of great importance to me, as I have many aspects of the keris to learn. Which saddens me that Alan has opted to withhold comment, but of course I need to respect that also, and I do. Kai, the blade length is 12.3 inches, that's 31.2 cm. I now have quite a few facts on the table pertaining to this keris, thanks to you all, and this prompts questions in my mind: 1 How is it that this particular blade can have the necessary visible features that enable experienced students of the keris to be able to eliminate Sulawesi as point of origin? I admire that expertise, and would like to be further enlightened on this point, if you please. 2 According to the antique dealer from whom I got this keris, the mendak is gold. He has done a test on it's mark with concentrated nitric acid and he assured me of this fact. He is a cousin, and we are on very good, amicable terms. Does this fact (if true) strike you as perhaps improbable? IOW, does the gold fit in with the class of this keris? 3 Having read what was said about the pamor, I conclude I am correct when I make it to be mlumah, and that the three patterns mentioned all fall under mlumah? 4 Of course the pattern on the ganja is miring (or so I think). If so, would that be adeg? 5 Coming to the 7 luk blade, is there any cultural distinction in terms of meaning between luk 3, 5 and 7? I know that wave counts above 7 are seen as special. Does 3, 5 and 7 each have different significance? I appreciate your patience with my many questions! Regards Johan Last edited by Johan van Zyl; 16th October 2016 at 12:16 PM.

14th October 2016, 07:37 PM	#1
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Great Bugis keris. Very nice catch. A pity the wrongko is missing. Certainly not overcleaned. This is how a neat Bugis keris looks like. I love it.

15th October 2016, 10:52 AM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,732	Hello Johan, yes like said by the other before, a decent Bugis blade and not overcleaned ( ) like said by Green. When this blade get further cleaned by fruit acid and get traditional etched it will look very nice like Jean has shown you. But you can let it also like this since it will be maybe a problem for you to get the blade etched. Congrats for your second keris! Regards, Detlef

15th October 2016, 12:44 PM	#5
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,242	Perhaps not over cleaned, yet the blade tip has been re-sharpened an is a little bit awkward now. Sirah Cecak has received a "beump" (quotation Inspector Clouzot) I would say, more likely Riau then Sulawesi. That Pendokok we encounter also in M. Peninsula.

15th October 2016, 10:58 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,859	Yes Johan, Alan will do just fine. I'm not going to comment much on this keris. My focus for many years has been the attempt to gain an understanding of the keris in Javanese/Balinese societies, and an understanding of the keris in these societies tends to create an opinion that places the keris in other keris bearing societies into a very different realm. Any keris is certainly a very collectable object, and it is probable that most people who take part in this Forum are collectors, so the opinions already received, and those that may follow can be accepted as valid opinions of practicing collectors. I will reserve my comments on this occasion.

16th October 2016, 09:20 PM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,859	Yes Jean, the gonjo has been made in probably the most usual way, by cutting a piece of the pamor material from the forging, before the core was welded in. But we cannot call that pamor in the gonjo miring, or adeg, its still mlumah pamor, its just that we are looking at it side on, it was not manipulated in the forge.