Pulwar from afghanistan

carlos · 3rd May 2016, 03:46 PM

I just adquire this sword. The pictures are from seller, I hope received soon, I don,t know nothing about origin of the piece.
Could you help me? Age? real or tourist weapon?
Thanks in advance
carlos

A.alnakkas · 3rd May 2016, 03:56 PM

I like these. Beautiful, practical swords. While these photos are not enough, I think the blade is crude with an odd curve that follows the Persian style. Spine in one of the pictures looks slim but more photos would be better.

mahratt · 3rd May 2016, 04:02 PM

Judging by the photos , a good pulvar . I think - the second half of the 19th century . Blade - Shamshir . Probaly wootz.

Ian · 3rd May 2016, 04:12 PM

I agree with Alnakkas. The blade looks very thin and has a Turkish tilt to the curve. I don't think you will find wootz under the oxidation.

Ian.

ariel · 3rd May 2016, 04:27 PM

Agree with Lotfy and Ian.
First thing you may do is cleaning the blade: a lot of oil and steel wool. Then maybe polish an area and etch it. Be careful not to remove any markings hiding under the rust layer.

I am also not sure how thin the blade is: can you measure it close to the hilt? Usually, Afghani pulwar blades are pretty massive and often have rather elaborate fullers.

Will be interesting to see it after gentle restoration.

Jens Nordlunde · 3rd May 2016, 05:00 PM

Maybe this helps a bit.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 3rd May 2016, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carlos

I just adquire this sword. The pictures are from seller, I hope received soon, I don,t know nothing about origin of the piece.
Could you help me? Age? real or tourist weapon?
Thanks in advance
carlos

Salaams Carlos, Afghan Pulwar or Pulvar ... This could come out reasonably well as already stated...

I always wondered what the actual relationship was with the Indian Tulvar? Looking at the words in particular Pul meaning flower I also thought what has this sword got to do with flowers? Pul = Flower.

Recently I am drawn to the fact that the pommel does indeed look like a big metalic floral device, very geometrical but lending itself to that description.

Funnily enough the Hindi word for flower is a bit unpronounceable by Europeans as it starts with a soft F sound but is pronounced phol... Pholvar? so it invariably sounds like Tulvar.... I am not a linguist in Hindi but am surrounded by Hindi, Urdu, and Mulialam speakers as well as Arab speakers... and this conundrum interests me on the linguistics front.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 4th May 2016, 10:25 AM

I have a few photos of examples to place...and hope you may all comment ..

ariel · 4th May 2016, 12:09 PM

Ibrahiim,
We just managed to pass the stage of Phul Kattara, and now,- that?
Please, cease and desist:-)))
Otherwise, I shall resurrect the phulish ( Jim, thanks!) hypothesis of Phul Medames, the secret phlatulant phlogiston of Aphghani phlora:-)

Pukka Bundook · 4th May 2016, 01:28 PM

The sword in the original post has either an unusually large pommel, or an unusually slim grip.
Nothing wrong with that, just slightly different!
Bit concerned about the blade shape and thickness though.
We will know more when Carlos has it in hand.

ariel · 4th May 2016, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

The sword in the original post has either an unusually large pommel, or an unusually slim grip.
Nothing wrong with that, just slightly different!
Bit concerned about the blade shape and thickness though.
We will know more when Carlos has it in hand.

Or an unusually small blade....

estcrh · 4th May 2016, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Or an unusually small blade....

The blade seems very flat from what can be seen, more pictures are needed for sure.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 5th May 2016, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Ibrahiim,
We just managed to pass the stage of Phul Kattara, and now,- that?
Please, cease and desist:-)))
Otherwise, I shall resurrect the phulish ( Jim, thanks!) hypothesis of Phul Medames, the secret phlatulant phlogiston of Aphghani phlora:-)

Salaams Ariel, So let me get this straight...You dont think in all Phlobability that the Phommel looks like a phlower?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

ariel · 5th May 2016, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Ariel, So let me get this straight...You dont think in all Phlobability that the Phommel looks like a phlower?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

About as much as the phamously phabulous phanny of phull-bodied Kim Kardashian :-)))

carlos · 6th May 2016, 06:12 PM

I have received sword my first impression is handle is older than blade. And blade is shorter than other pulwar I have seen.
Thanks in advance
Carlos

ariel · 7th May 2016, 12:13 AM

I think the blade is new, even though we can't see how thick it is.
Afghani sword as an overwhelming rule had their blades decorated in some fashion, at the very least they had fullers.
Most suspiciously, the rust on the blade is reddish and there is no rust under the langet, the most difficult place to clean.

Also, I have an impression that the blade is not sharpened. Am I wrong?

Sorry to say it, but if possible, I would have returned it to the seller.

mariusgmioc · 7th May 2016, 02:05 PM

Hello Carlos,
To me, the blade looks suspiciosly flat. Also from the photos appears to have some strange bends/irregularities. Maybe I am paranoid, but it looks like crudely forged from band steel. Like the band steel was bent to give it the shamshir shape... and the bending wasn't very successful.

Pukka Bundook · 7th May 2016, 03:05 PM

I tend to agree with the above posts.
The resin looks a bit suspect as well.

Nice old hilt though. :-)

Sajen · 7th May 2016, 03:13 PM

Hello Carlos,

sadly I have to agree, the blade look more as doubtful to my eyes. Could you post better pictures from it?

Regards,
Detlef

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 7th May 2016, 03:34 PM

Salaams Carlos, The blade is made up...Send it back if you can...I was about to mention that loads of these are coming out of Sharjah souk ...Much the same ...
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

ward · 7th May 2016, 04:33 PM

various pulwars with local blades

Jens Nordlunde · 7th May 2016, 09:36 PM

Ward,
These pictures really are most interesting - from where do you have them?
Jens

ward · 7th May 2016, 11:11 PM

I like pulwars and collected them for a while. I have 5-6 more and probably sold another 10 or so the last couple years.

ariel · 8th May 2016, 03:54 AM

Ward,
Can we see the blade of the 4th from the top one in the last pic? The one with brass decorations on the handle?
I have a very similar one, with a wootz blade.

carlos · 9th May 2016, 09:15 AM

Thanks all for the information, the Price I paid was cheaper . maybe I re sold with a low Price to try to recover some money.
thanks again
carlos

Jim McDougall · 10th May 2016, 09:34 PM

Carlos, regardless of the disappointing blade on this, please remember this is an outstanding old paluoar hilt, and it is amazing whoever had it could not find a more suitable blade. I have always thought these hilts most intriguing and excellent examples of Afghanistan in the earlier 19th century, when it was regarded as northern India in the British Raj. As such, these swords were simply thought of as tulwars (Egerton , 1884) and represented these regions as one of the most turbulent geo-political regions in the world.

For those who wish to know more on the circumstances which certainly prevailed in the times of these sabres and this hilt as well, I would recommend Peter Hopkirk's "The Great Game", a great book!

ariel · 10th May 2016, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

For those who wish to know more on the circumstances which certainly prevailed in the times of these sabres and this hilt as well, I would recommend Peter Hopkirk's "The Great Game", a great book!

I can only second it withe greatest enthusiasm.
This is a book you cannot put down.

CharlesS · 10th May 2016, 11:58 PM

Agreed...an excellent history book that reads like a suspense novel!

ariel · 11th May 2016, 03:56 AM

And do not forget my beloved Harry Flashman! :-)

3rd May 2016, 03:46 PM	#1
carlos Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 737	Pulwar from afghanistan I just adquire this sword. The pictures are from seller, I hope received soon, I don,t know nothing about origin of the piece. Could you help me? Age? real or tourist weapon? Thanks in advance carlos Attached Images

3rd May 2016, 05:00 PM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Maybe this helps a bit. Attached Images

4th May 2016, 10:25 AM	#8
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	I have a few photos of examples to place...and hope you may all comment .. Attached Images

4th May 2016, 12:09 PM	#9
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Ibrahiim, We just managed to pass the stage of Phul Kattara, and now,- that? Please, cease and desist:-))) Otherwise, I shall resurrect the phulish ( Jim, thanks!) hypothesis of Phul Medames, the secret phlatulant phlogiston of Aphghani phlora:-) Last edited by ariel; 4th May 2016 at 03:11 PM.

6th May 2016, 06:12 PM	#15
carlos Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 737	I have received sword my first impression is handle is older than blade. And blade is shorter than other pulwar I have seen. Thanks in advance Carlos Attached Images

3rd May 2016, 03:56 PM	#2
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	I like these. Beautiful, practical swords. While these photos are not enough, I think the blade is crude with an odd curve that follows the Persian style. Spine in one of the pictures looks slim but more photos would be better.

3rd May 2016, 04:02 PM	#3
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	Judging by the photos , a good pulvar . I think - the second half of the 19th century . Blade - Shamshir . Probaly wootz.

3rd May 2016, 04:12 PM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,194	I agree with Alnakkas. The blade looks very thin and has a Turkish tilt to the curve. I don't think you will find wootz under the oxidation. Ian.

3rd May 2016, 04:27 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Agree with Lotfy and Ian. First thing you may do is cleaning the blade: a lot of oil and steel wool. Then maybe polish an area and etch it. Be careful not to remove any markings hiding under the rust layer. I am also not sure how thin the blade is: can you measure it close to the hilt? Usually, Afghani pulwar blades are pretty massive and often have rather elaborate fullers. Will be interesting to see it after gentle restoration.

4th May 2016, 01:28 PM	#10
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	The sword in the original post has either an unusually large pommel, or an unusually slim grip. Nothing wrong with that, just slightly different! Bit concerned about the blade shape and thickness though. We will know more when Carlos has it in hand.

7th May 2016, 12:13 AM	#16
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I think the blade is new, even though we can't see how thick it is. Afghani sword as an overwhelming rule had their blades decorated in some fashion, at the very least they had fullers. Most suspiciously, the rust on the blade is reddish and there is no rust under the langet, the most difficult place to clean. Also, I have an impression that the blade is not sharpened. Am I wrong? Sorry to say it, but if possible, I would have returned it to the seller.

7th May 2016, 02:05 PM	#17
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	Hello Carlos, To me, the blade looks suspiciosly flat. Also from the photos appears to have some strange bends/irregularities. Maybe I am paranoid, but it looks like crudely forged from band steel. Like the band steel was bent to give it the shamshir shape... and the bending wasn't very successful.

7th May 2016, 03:05 PM	#18
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	I tend to agree with the above posts. The resin looks a bit suspect as well. Nice old hilt though. :-)

7th May 2016, 03:13 PM	#19
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,761	Hello Carlos, sadly I have to agree, the blade look more as doubtful to my eyes. Could you post better pictures from it? Regards, Detlef

7th May 2016, 03:34 PM	#20
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams Carlos, The blade is made up...Send it back if you can...I was about to mention that loads of these are coming out of Sharjah souk ...Much the same ... Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

7th May 2016, 04:33 PM	#21
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	pulwar various pulwars with local blades Attached Images

7th May 2016, 09:36 PM	#22
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Ward, These pictures really are most interesting - from where do you have them? Jens

7th May 2016, 11:11 PM	#23
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	I like pulwars and collected them for a while. I have 5-6 more and probably sold another 10 or so the last couple years.

8th May 2016, 03:54 AM	#24
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Ward, Can we see the blade of the 4th from the top one in the last pic? The one with brass decorations on the handle? I have a very similar one, with a wootz blade.

9th May 2016, 09:15 AM	#25
carlos Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 737	Thanks all for the information, the Price I paid was cheaper . maybe I re sold with a low Price to try to recover some money. thanks again carlos

10th May 2016, 09:34 PM	#26
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,938	Carlos, regardless of the disappointing blade on this, please remember this is an outstanding old paluoar hilt, and it is amazing whoever had it could not find a more suitable blade. I have always thought these hilts most intriguing and excellent examples of Afghanistan in the earlier 19th century, when it was regarded as northern India in the British Raj. As such, these swords were simply thought of as tulwars (Egerton , 1884) and represented these regions as one of the most turbulent geo-political regions in the world. For those who wish to know more on the circumstances which certainly prevailed in the times of these sabres and this hilt as well, I would recommend Peter Hopkirk's "The Great Game", a great book!

10th May 2016, 11:58 PM	#28
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Agreed...an excellent history book that reads like a suspense novel!

11th May 2016, 03:56 AM	#29
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	And do not forget my beloved Harry Flashman! :-)