ALGERIAN FLINTLOCK LONG GUN

rickystl · 13th February 2016, 08:41 PM

Hello everyone. I already have two Algerian long guns. One a shooter, the other a nice collector piece. So I really didn't need this one for my collection. But it was SO CHEAP I had to buy it.

You guys know what I mean.

Well, here's another restoration job in the waiting.

LOL
This one has the somewhat lesser encountered flintlock versus the large miquelet lock. And the gun looks very "tribal" made. And it has what appears to be an old brass museum tag with the number "80" stamped on the tag. The barrel is held to the stock with very thin black wire instead of barrel bands, and appears original to the gun. In fact, this wire is actually what holds the front sling swival to the stock. Looks like it had an iron ramrod vs wood, but I will investige that further. Here's what will need to be done:
LOCK: The lock was complete, but shipped with the hammer and screw off. That's because the tumbler was sitting in the lock crooked and partially out of the hole. And it was locked on half-cock. Hope the mainspring has not been weakened. Anyway, the lock will need a total going over and put back in working order. One of the lock plate bolts is missing. So will have to make two new ones that match and age them.
STOCK: The stock is basically solid except for a broken piece at the buttstock. I can tell this piece had been broken before with someone attempting to re-glue it using the wrong glue. So I guess it fell off during shipment. But it's an easy fix. I can tell there was originally a butt cap/plate
of some kind that was held with two nails. But the cap is missing. I do have an original broken Algerian stock that has a brass butt plate with the original patina I could fit. And maybe (?) add a piece of aged camel bone between the the butt stock and brass plate? The rest of the stock looks OK. Crude inleting job for the lock. LOL
BARREL: Tapered octagon the full length as most Algerian barrels were. Has a dark patina with some nice silver decoration at the breech and muzzle ends. The problem is the breech plug tang is slightly bent upwards from it's inlet in the stock. Don't have any idea how that happened. I can tell it was held to the stock with a nail versus a screw. It will be easy enough to heat and bend the tang back so it fits in it's inlet. Problem is, to take the barrel off the stock (also for exterior cleaning of the barrel) will require unraveling 7 wire barrel bands.

And then winding the wire back on.

That will take a while. Not looking forward to it. I do have about 3 original Algerian barrel bands that are correct for the gun that I might be able to utilize and eliminate a couple of the wire bands. Hmmm....we'll see. There has to be at least three wire bands re-used. One for the upper sling ring, and two more for the ramrod ferrels.

Anyway, here are a bunch of pics of the gun exactly the way I received it. Thanks for looking. And comments are most welcome.
Rick

rickystl · 13th February 2016, 08:42 PM

MORE PICS:

rickystl · 13th February 2016, 08:44 PM

AND MORE PICS:

rickystl · 13th February 2016, 08:47 PM

STILL MORE:

rickystl · 13th February 2016, 08:48 PM

TWO MORE:

rickystl · 13th February 2016, 09:16 PM

Well, I was able to get the lock back together and in working order. The mainspring is still good. Two problems: 1. The threads on the hammer screw are partially stripped. And possibly the threads in the hole of the tumbler. The hammer screw not only holds the hammer on, but also holds the tumbler firm against the inside of the lockplate. So the tumbler may have to be drilled out and new re-threaded with a new hammer screw. 2. The upper half of the hammer is bent. So it won't hit the frizzen correctly. So the hammer will have to be heated and bent to correct this. You can see this in the photos. The flint shown in the photo has an uneven flat bottom, so it makes the bent hammer look exagerated in the photo. But you see the problem.

A pic of an old, broken Algerian stock from my parts bin. I can use the brass butt plate off this one to restore the other.

This gun will take a bit more work then I expected. DARN.

We'll see how it turns out. And I'll re-post.
Rick

archaeologist · 13th February 2016, 09:31 PM

Rikystyl,
Fun project and I may ask for some advice on my own, but first I wanted to raise a question for all. I haven't yet read enough of the forum to know how much it is discussed.

When you do an extensive restoration like this, how do you document it for the next owner? (None of us lasts as long as the guns can.) So it doesn't become a misleading piece of evidence for studying these things.

Cheers,
John

stenoyab · 13th February 2016, 10:14 PM

Hi Rick,
In the morning I will photograph one I have thats almost its twin, except it has a native made Flintlock lock (complete with a safety catch).

It has almost identical wire barrel bands like yours, so I would not rush to replace them with brass as the wire may well be the correct bands.

Also the butt doesn't have a brass end cap, instead it has a wood cap made in a different type of wood to the rest of the stock. Looking at yours I would suggest yours would also have had this extra wood end cap rather than brass (it appears someone had tried to glue and use dowels to re-affix it and it has then been lost on yours).

Jeff

estcrh · 14th February 2016, 02:19 AM

Rick, really great photos as usual, thanks.

Tony PP · 14th February 2016, 06:53 AM

Hello, Looks like you have a bit of work to do but worth it I think. You wrote that the hammer screw held the hammer and tumbler , true but missing from that lock is the bridle that fits the other end of the tumbler. Held in place with screw where you have holes in the top of the lock plate and by another screw going through the trigger sear. Looks like somebody has shortened your sear screw when the bridle was lost/ broken. Have fun.

stenoyab · 14th February 2016, 11:04 AM

Heres the photos of mine, I also found photos of another near twin to yours with the same style lockplate sold via auction, it also had wire bound barrel and the extra wood butt.

rickystl · 14th February 2016, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by archaeologist

Rikystyl,
Fun project and I may ask for some advice on my own, but first I wanted to raise a question for all. I haven't yet read enough of the forum to know how much it is discussed.

When you do an extensive restoration like this, how do you document it for the next owner? (None of us lasts as long as the guns can.) So it doesn't become a misleading piece of evidence for studying these things.

Cheers,
John

Hi John.

What a great question. In my case, each of my guns has a number and a corresponding page number I keep in a ring binder. This makes it easier to update when changes occur or new information is found. I list the general I.D. of the gun, area and approximate period of manufacture, and any restoration, alterations, etc. that have been done. And a realistic "street" value. I do the same with accessories such as powder horns/flasks, etc.
That way, should something happen to me, or otherwise have to sell the collection, there is accurate documentation on each piece, with an approximate value.
I believe this is especially important to do with Ethno firearms. I have found that most of the Dealers and Collectors of antique guns - especially in the USA - while having a vast knowledge of American and European guns, have little if any knowledge of these Ethno guns. There is simply not the volumn of collectors for these guns. Hope this helps.
Rick.

rickystl · 14th February 2016, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stenoyab

Hi Rick,
In the morning I will photograph one I have thats almost its twin, except it has a native made Flintlock lock (complete with a safety catch).

It has almost identical wire barrel bands like yours, so I would not rush to replace them with brass as the wire may well be the correct bands.

Also the butt doesn't have a brass end cap, instead it has a wood cap made in a different type of wood to the rest of the stock. Looking at yours I would suggest yours would also have had this extra wood end cap rather than brass (it appears someone had tried to glue and use dowels to re-affix it and it has then been lost on yours).

Jeff

Hi Jeff.
Thanks for your comments. You are so right about the extension on the butt stock made with different wood. That is basically what I plan on doing, then adding the brass plate. And maybe a thin piece of camel bone between the two wood pieces LOL

Here is a pic of the butt stock on my shooter showing the different wood. I've also seen bone used for this.
Rick.

rickystl · 14th February 2016, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony PP

Hello, Looks like you have a bit of work to do but worth it I think. You wrote that the hammer screw held the hammer and tumbler , true but missing from that lock is the bridle that fits the other end of the tumbler. Held in place with screw where you have holes in the top of the lock plate and by another screw going through the trigger sear. Looks like somebody has shortened your sear screw when the bridle was lost/ broken. Have fun.

Hi Tony.
You are so right. The bridle is missing, and you can see where it originally resided. It looks like the lock was being used without the bridle. Which would be the likely reason for the stripped threads in the tumbler hole and hammer screw, with the excess stress put on both. Between myself and my gunsmith, we may have and/or can locate a bridle that can be fitted. Otherwise, a new one will have to be made.

Thanks for your comments.
Rick.

rickystl · 14th February 2016, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stenoyab

Heres the photos of mine, I also found photos of another near twin to yours with the same style lockplate sold via auction, it also had wire bound barrel and the extra wood butt.

Hi Jeff.
WOW!! Thanks for posting your Algerian gun. Yes, that's what the butt caps typically look like. Your front sling ring is atteched exactly like mine. Is that wire or cord wrap on yours?

Now, your gun is super interesting, especially the LOCK !!! That lock is styled exactly like a late 17th century Portuguese lock. Very Cool !!!! Only the second one I've ever seen with this lock style. And the other one was also mounted on an Algerian gun. The Portuguese locks were styled somewhat like the Spanish miquelet locks, but mounted the mainsprings internally rather than externally on the lockplates. And the "dog" style saftey positioned in front of the hammer instead of behind the hammer as most European locks. I'm almost sure that's a Potuguese lock that was locally decorated. Very, very neat. Thanks for posting this one. Very jealous. Wish I owned it. LOL

An interesting side note about your lock: During the late 1800's and early 1900's there were a large quantity of crudely made copies of this lock that were made (in Belgium I think) for slae/trade to the natives in SOUTH Africa. Here's a pic of one that I own. Except for the crudeness, note the similarities. Took a bit of work for my gunsmith to get this thing to work right. LOL.

But your's looks like the real thing. That lock looks so good on your gun!!!
Thanks for the extra butt stock pics. It will help my gunsmith making a new one.

Rick.

stenoyab · 14th February 2016, 08:53 PM

Interesting info regards the lock, I tried to remove mine to post a rear photo (and for my own interest), but one of the screws is stuck fast. so will put some oil on it and leave alone for a while.

Its wire on mine, but very much in the style of string/cord. Very fine multi core wires.

Have to confess I bought mine purely because of the crude lock and the sling, had no idea it was interesting to anyone beyond me.
Mine has no inlay, and only a very small amount of decoration.

rickystl · 15th February 2016, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stenoyab

Interesting info regards the lock, I tried to remove mine to post a rear photo (and for my own interest), but one of the screws is stuck fast. so will put some oil on it and leave alone for a while.

Its wire on mine, but very much in the style of string/cord. Very fine multi core wires.

Have to confess I bought mine purely because of the crude lock and the sling, had no idea it was interesting to anyone beyond me.
Mine has no inlay, and only a very small amount of decoration.

Hi Jeff.
Yes, keep adding the penetrating oil every week and trying again. It would be great to see the inside of the lock. It may be a locally made copy (?) But from the outside, I think it may be a genuine Portuguese made lock, that was decorated locally. The inside of the lock will be the clue. Of course, the lock could have been used at a latter date. But is the lock is European made, it would still place your gun in an early period. Possibly pre-1800.
Rick.

stenoyab · 15th February 2016, 11:27 AM

Hi Rick,

Got the lock out.

Be interested to know if you think it is made in Europe or North Africa now you can see more.

Jeff

rickystl · 16th February 2016, 02:48 AM

Hi Jeff.

Hmmm......it's really a bit hard to tell if Europen or a locally made copy. Notice the three (3) screw lock. Which is a very early feature like a Snaphaunce. Often the screws are a clue on the inside of the lock. But hard to tell here. But I'm going out on a limb here and say it was originally a European made lock. Only because I've never seen a locally made "copy" of a Portuguese lock. It is very cool !!!

Rick.

Philip · 17th February 2016, 07:22 AM

Ricky and Sten,

Thanks for posting photos of the interior and exterior of your locks. Mechanically, what you guys have is a Portuguese hybrid design called "fecho meio a portuguesa e meio a francesa" -- a lock half in the Portuguese style, half French. These were in vogue during the latter 17th and into the following century.

The Portuguese component consists of what you see on the exterior: a miquelet-style hammer with pivoting dog and the odd angular frizzen-spring. These are derived from the purely Portuguese "fecho de molinhas" or spring lock, which first appeared in the closing decades of the 16th cent. and remained popular for another 175 years in Portugal. The molinhas lock boasted a rather complex sear arrangement which was probably influenced by earlier Iberian wheellocks. The important thing to note is that the molinhas always had an internal mainspring; there is another Portuguese lock called the "fecho de anselmo" which has a large exterior spring which presses downward like that of the Italian "alla romana" locks, but don't let me get carried away and start confusing you!

The French component is what you see inside the lockplate. The "guts" are those of the classic "French" flintlock which was to become the norm in most of Western Europe, plus Britain and America, from the late 17th through early 19th centuries. Note here that the Portuguese version incorporates the French mechanism at its earliest and most unrefined level of development -- the tumbler is not supported by a bridle as with later locks. This has functional consequences since it makes the mechanism prone to falling out of adjustment as parts wear down with repeated use.

The indigenous flintlocks of Portugal are unique in a number of respects, with no exact parallels outside the country. For one reason or another, they never gained traction outside the country, and even in their birthplace the French flintlock along with Italian and Spanish-style miquelets were to eclipse all of them as the 18th cent. wore on. Contrast this to the Castilian miquelet "de patilla" which was used throughout the Ottoman Empire and Iran, or the Spanish "agujeta" lock which you see on the majority of Algerian guns.

However, enough of the fechos de molinhas and the Luso-French hybrids were on guns brought by the Portuguese to sub-saharan Africa that factories in Liege, Belgium which produced cheap trade guns for the African market before World War I also cranked out very rough versions of these locks for export. One of the locks in your photos, the rather newish-looking one, is undoubtedly from this production.

Philip · 17th February 2016, 07:32 AM

Is it of European or African manufacture?
The shape of the lockplate is somewhat odd considering the mechanical type. In my post I identified it as a half Portuguese, half French hybrid. Original versions of this system, made in Portugal, tend to have the banana-shaped lockplates characteristic of French, or "true" flintlocks. You'll recognize the plate shape as something seen on, say, a Brown Bess lockplate, just to give an example.

The plate on your lock does not have this smooth banana profile, it has the protruding bulges typical of the earlier "fecho de molinhas". Not only that, the original molinhas locks have the rearmost bulge extended into a tapering, rounded tail. The shape of this posterior profile is necessitated by the design of the molinhas sear system which I have said is derived from wheellock sears. Your lock, which is the hybrid, has a stubbier tail; the French sear and spring don't take up as much room and a much shorter plate is needed. The nod to an earlier style of lockplate is more aesthetic than functional. The whole thing gives the impression of an artisan or manufacturer trying to get the best of both worlds -- the simpler French interior mechanism with the more traditional-looking or archaistic molinhas lockplate shape.

Based on this, I don't think that the lock is Portuguese, of the period when the system was in vogue in its homeland. If it's a Liege knockoff for the colonial trade, I would think that the major parts would be largely shaped by machine. Is the lockplate of uniform thickness throughout? Are the surfaces more or less even (albeit with file or machining marks) or is there evidence of hand forging (perhaps with some mill scale visible) that one would expect out of a native smithy? Do the screw threads look like they were cut by taps and dies, or are they hand-filed? Any stampings or markings? Answering these questions is a start in trying to figure out its origin.

rickystl · 20th February 2016, 04:36 PM

Hi Phillip.
Thanks so much for jumping in this Thread and lending your expertise. Great information! I've now added to my knowledge on this lock style. And I understand what your saying ref the earliest French style internals and the exterior Portuguese styling. Between about 1570 and 1650 there were so many changes, variations, etc. with lock design. This is the first time I've been able to view an early styled Portuguese lock. So, myself, being an honorary member of the arcane lock club, Jeff's lock is very exiting to see LOL

JEFF'S LOCK: Due to the dark patina it's a bit hard to tell in the photos, but the lock looks like it's a forging. Again, I can't tell from the photo if there is a full cock notch on the tumbler? Or maybe it is worn down. Maybe Jeff can tell us if the hammer will cock or not? And the "dog" style safety appears to be functional.
SOUTH AFRICAN TRADE LOCK: The one I have above is a casting, except for the mainspring. Which is not surprising. Also, what would be the safety in front of the hammer is actually just a hammer stop. This lock was made with the least possible cost of production. Didn't even bother to polish out the castings. LOL

Jeff's lock could very well be a locally made copy, or Europen made for export. But as you mentioned, the threads on the lock, etc. could give us better clues. You would think with all the early styled snaphaunce and miquelet locks utilized on these guns, that more than one or two would show up utilizing the Portuguese styled lock. But then, as Phillip mentions, the Portuguese styled lock never really caught on outside it's homeland. Which may be why we don't see them. So maybe I'm answering my own question.

Jeff: Thanks again for posting this lock. Much appreciated. Feel free to post any additional photos while the lock is off the gun. LOL

Rick.

stenoyab · 20th February 2016, 07:42 PM

Thank you for the interesting info Phillip.

I tend to think mine is no earlier than mid 1850's due to overall condition, but obviously the lock could be earlier.

It cocks and fires fine and the safety catch works to hold the hammer back.

If you look at the screws the slots are very much off centre,

Heres some close up photos of the rear of the lock.

Philip · 21st February 2016, 11:06 PM

The above detail photos are much appreciated! And thanks, Sten, for the comments on how well yours works. The clarification regarding the "thingie"in front of the cock is most useful, based on that I need to amend my prior post slightly in order to keep things straight:
1. If the projection is a functioning manual safety, (as opposed to a hammer-stop as you'd find on, say, a Scottish snaphaunce, then the proper term for this type of lock is indeed "fecho meio à portuguesa e meio à francesa" as I have said earlier.
HOWEVER--

2. If it is an immobile stop for the cock's forward fall AND IS NOT A PIVOTING SAFETY PAWL, then the lock is called a "fecho de nò" or "knot lock". This is a simpler predecessor to the portuguesa/francesa type and was known as early as the second half of the 17th cent. So the later, possibly Liege-made lock for the African colonial trade in the previous pics is a last-gasp manifestation of the knot lock.

You might be interested in what the Portuguese thought of these locks back in the day, judging from the opinions of the smiths who wrote ESPINGARDA PERFEYTA (by C. Fiosconi and J. Guserio, in Lisbon 1718):

"[knot locks are not] capable of being fired in the air (i.e. muzzle elevated) since they are too stiff when pulling the trigger, and if it be wished to make them softer (i.e. easier to cock), they also become unsafe and easily uncock themselves, since the mechanism has only two parts of poor shape, and if many persons make use of them, it is because they are cheaper."

"Locks which are half Portuguese and half French are much better than those we have described, although they are slow in uncocking (i.e. have a sluggish hammer-fall), but much more durable, having the half-cock brake in the Portuguese style, outside, for which reason they must be applied to muskets and pistols, for also with them the stock is more elegant since they lave the [lock]plates in the French style."

I agree that the version of the Portuguesa/Francesa lock on the Algerian gun in this thread looks to be a handmade native copy, not an industrially-made cheap European export product. It couldn't be all that bad, though, since it works!

rickystl · 28th February 2016, 07:48 PM

Sten: Thanks so much for the additional photos. I agree with Philip that it appears to be a locally made native copy. And that it is still in working condition is even better. As I mentioned, this is only the second time I've seen this style lock mounted to a gun. By the way, I too like the sling on the gun. The whole gun has a very "tribal" look to it.

Philip: Thanks again for the great information on this lock style. Most interesting.

As a side note, here is a new made copy of a Portuguese style gun utilizing a similar lock style. This was built by a contemporary maker here in the USA. He has agreed to make another lock (only) for me, which I could utilize on a shooting gun.

Rick

rickystl · 28th February 2016, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony PP

Hello, Looks like you have a bit of work to do but worth it I think. You wrote that the hammer screw held the hammer and tumbler , true but missing from that lock is the bridle that fits the other end of the tumbler. Held in place with screw where you have holes in the top of the lock plate and by another screw going through the trigger sear. Looks like somebody has shortened your sear screw when the bridle was lost/ broken. Have fun.

Hello again. The photo on the RIGHT is the lock from the gun originally posted above. The lock on the LEFT is a Trade lock that was likely mounted to an Afghan Jazail. This lock was missing it's trigger bar/sear and came from my parts bin.

Well, as it turned out, the tumbler, bridle, top bridle screw, and hammer screw from the Trade lock will retro-fit almost perfectly into the Algerian lock. Just luck. So that will make the repairs on the Algerian lock much simpler and less expensive. But still some work to do on it. But it's nice to get a good break every once in a while. LOL

I'll post an update when the lock is done.

Rick.

Philip · 1st March 2016, 06:43 AM

Ricky,
Thanks for posting the picture of the reproduction Portuguese-style gun. So good that a gunsmith is interested in making a quality, working replica of an obscure European snaplock mechanism that the vast majority of enthusiasts aren't even aware of. I've seen some contemporary copies of early Scandinavian and Russian snaphaunces (a type so rudimentary that the pancover needs to be opened manually as on a matchlock), these are mind-blowing.

Do keep us in the loop when you get your lock and have finished mounting it up onto the gun you're building. Post some pics! Are you aware of the book ESPINGARDA FEITICEIRA / THE BEWITCHED GUN by Rainer Daehnhardt? About the introduction of snap matchlock firearms to the Far East by the Portuguese in the 16th cent., one chapter describes a replica of such a musket made by two Portuguese gunsmiths and presented a couple decades ago to the Japanese government as a goodwill gesture to commemorate the events of 1543.

13th February 2016, 08:41 PM	#1
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	ALGERIAN FLINTLOCK LONG GUN Hello everyone. I already have two Algerian long guns. One a shooter, the other a nice collector piece. So I really didn't need this one for my collection. But it was SO CHEAP I had to buy it. You guys know what I mean. Well, here's another restoration job in the waiting. LOL This one has the somewhat lesser encountered flintlock versus the large miquelet lock. And the gun looks very "tribal" made. And it has what appears to be an old brass museum tag with the number "80" stamped on the tag. The barrel is held to the stock with very thin black wire instead of barrel bands, and appears original to the gun. In fact, this wire is actually what holds the front sling swival to the stock. Looks like it had an iron ramrod vs wood, but I will investige that further. Here's what will need to be done: LOCK: The lock was complete, but shipped with the hammer and screw off. That's because the tumbler was sitting in the lock crooked and partially out of the hole. And it was locked on half-cock. Hope the mainspring has not been weakened. Anyway, the lock will need a total going over and put back in working order. One of the lock plate bolts is missing. So will have to make two new ones that match and age them. STOCK: The stock is basically solid except for a broken piece at the buttstock. I can tell this piece had been broken before with someone attempting to re-glue it using the wrong glue. So I guess it fell off during shipment. But it's an easy fix. I can tell there was originally a butt cap/plate of some kind that was held with two nails. But the cap is missing. I do have an original broken Algerian stock that has a brass butt plate with the original patina I could fit. And maybe (?) add a piece of aged camel bone between the the butt stock and brass plate? The rest of the stock looks OK. Crude inleting job for the lock. LOL BARREL: Tapered octagon the full length as most Algerian barrels were. Has a dark patina with some nice silver decoration at the breech and muzzle ends. The problem is the breech plug tang is slightly bent upwards from it's inlet in the stock. Don't have any idea how that happened. I can tell it was held to the stock with a nail versus a screw. It will be easy enough to heat and bend the tang back so it fits in it's inlet. Problem is, to take the barrel off the stock (also for exterior cleaning of the barrel) will require unraveling 7 wire barrel bands. And then winding the wire back on. That will take a while. Not looking forward to it. I do have about 3 original Algerian barrel bands that are correct for the gun that I might be able to utilize and eliminate a couple of the wire bands. Hmmm....we'll see. There has to be at least three wire bands re-used. One for the upper sling ring, and two more for the ramrod ferrels. Anyway, here are a bunch of pics of the gun exactly the way I received it. Thanks for looking. And comments are most welcome. Rick Attached Images

13th February 2016, 08:42 PM	#2
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	MORE PICS: Attached Images

13th February 2016, 08:44 PM	#3
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	AND MORE PICS: Attached Images

13th February 2016, 08:47 PM	#4
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	STILL MORE: Attached Images

13th February 2016, 08:48 PM	#5
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	TWO MORE: Attached Images

13th February 2016, 09:16 PM	#6
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Well, I was able to get the lock back together and in working order. The mainspring is still good. Two problems: 1. The threads on the hammer screw are partially stripped. And possibly the threads in the hole of the tumbler. The hammer screw not only holds the hammer on, but also holds the tumbler firm against the inside of the lockplate. So the tumbler may have to be drilled out and new re-threaded with a new hammer screw. 2. The upper half of the hammer is bent. So it won't hit the frizzen correctly. So the hammer will have to be heated and bent to correct this. You can see this in the photos. The flint shown in the photo has an uneven flat bottom, so it makes the bent hammer look exagerated in the photo. But you see the problem. A pic of an old, broken Algerian stock from my parts bin. I can use the brass butt plate off this one to restore the other. This gun will take a bit more work then I expected. DARN. We'll see how it turns out. And I'll re-post. Rick Attached Images

13th February 2016, 09:31 PM	#7
archaeologist Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 3	restoration documentation Rikystyl, Fun project and I may ask for some advice on my own, but first I wanted to raise a question for all. I haven't yet read enough of the forum to know how much it is discussed. When you do an extensive restoration like this, how do you document it for the next owner? (None of us lasts as long as the guns can.) So it doesn't become a misleading piece of evidence for studying these things. Cheers, John

13th February 2016, 10:14 PM	#8
stenoyab Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43	Hi Rick, In the morning I will photograph one I have thats almost its twin, except it has a native made Flintlock lock (complete with a safety catch). It has almost identical wire barrel bands like yours, so I would not rush to replace them with brass as the wire may well be the correct bands. Also the butt doesn't have a brass end cap, instead it has a wood cap made in a different type of wood to the rest of the stock. Looking at yours I would suggest yours would also have had this extra wood end cap rather than brass (it appears someone had tried to glue and use dowels to re-affix it and it has then been lost on yours). Jeff

14th February 2016, 02:19 AM	#9
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,497	Rick, really great photos as usual, thanks.

14th February 2016, 06:53 AM	#10
Tony PP Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 26	Hello, Looks like you have a bit of work to do but worth it I think. You wrote that the hammer screw held the hammer and tumbler , true but missing from that lock is the bridle that fits the other end of the tumbler. Held in place with screw where you have holes in the top of the lock plate and by another screw going through the trigger sear. Looks like somebody has shortened your sear screw when the bridle was lost/ broken. Have fun.

14th February 2016, 11:04 AM	#11
stenoyab Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43	Heres the photos of mine, I also found photos of another near twin to yours with the same style lockplate sold via auction, it also had wire bound barrel and the extra wood butt. Attached Images

14th February 2016, 08:53 PM	#16
stenoyab Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43	Interesting info regards the lock, I tried to remove mine to post a rear photo (and for my own interest), but one of the screws is stuck fast. so will put some oil on it and leave alone for a while. Its wire on mine, but very much in the style of string/cord. Very fine multi core wires. Have to confess I bought mine purely because of the crude lock and the sling, had no idea it was interesting to anyone beyond me. Mine has no inlay, and only a very small amount of decoration.

15th February 2016, 11:27 AM	#18
stenoyab Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43	Hi Rick, Got the lock out. Be interested to know if you think it is made in Europe or North Africa now you can see more. Jeff Attached Images

16th February 2016, 02:48 AM	#19
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Hi Jeff. Hmmm......it's really a bit hard to tell if Europen or a locally made copy. Notice the three (3) screw lock. Which is a very early feature like a Snaphaunce. Often the screws are a clue on the inside of the lock. But hard to tell here. But I'm going out on a limb here and say it was originally a European made lock. Only because I've never seen a locally made "copy" of a Portuguese lock. It is very cool !!! Rick.

17th February 2016, 07:22 AM	#20
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	Portuguese style lock Ricky and Sten, Thanks for posting photos of the interior and exterior of your locks. Mechanically, what you guys have is a Portuguese hybrid design called "fecho meio a portuguesa e meio a francesa" -- a lock half in the Portuguese style, half French. These were in vogue during the latter 17th and into the following century. The Portuguese component consists of what you see on the exterior: a miquelet-style hammer with pivoting dog and the odd angular frizzen-spring. These are derived from the purely Portuguese "fecho de molinhas" or spring lock, which first appeared in the closing decades of the 16th cent. and remained popular for another 175 years in Portugal. The molinhas lock boasted a rather complex sear arrangement which was probably influenced by earlier Iberian wheellocks. The important thing to note is that the molinhas always had an internal mainspring; there is another Portuguese lock called the "fecho de anselmo" which has a large exterior spring which presses downward like that of the Italian "alla romana" locks, but don't let me get carried away and start confusing you! The French component is what you see inside the lockplate. The "guts" are those of the classic "French" flintlock which was to become the norm in most of Western Europe, plus Britain and America, from the late 17th through early 19th centuries. Note here that the Portuguese version incorporates the French mechanism at its earliest and most unrefined level of development -- the tumbler is not supported by a bridle as with later locks. This has functional consequences since it makes the mechanism prone to falling out of adjustment as parts wear down with repeated use. The indigenous flintlocks of Portugal are unique in a number of respects, with no exact parallels outside the country. For one reason or another, they never gained traction outside the country, and even in their birthplace the French flintlock along with Italian and Spanish-style miquelets were to eclipse all of them as the 18th cent. wore on. Contrast this to the Castilian miquelet "de patilla" which was used throughout the Ottoman Empire and Iran, or the Spanish "agujeta" lock which you see on the majority of Algerian guns. However, enough of the fechos de molinhas and the Luso-French hybrids were on guns brought by the Portuguese to sub-saharan Africa that factories in Liege, Belgium which produced cheap trade guns for the African market before World War I also cranked out very rough versions of these locks for export. One of the locks in your photos, the rather newish-looking one, is undoubtedly from this production.

17th February 2016, 07:32 AM	#21
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	attempt to answer Stenoyab's question Is it of European or African manufacture? The shape of the lockplate is somewhat odd considering the mechanical type. In my post I identified it as a half Portuguese, half French hybrid. Original versions of this system, made in Portugal, tend to have the banana-shaped lockplates characteristic of French, or "true" flintlocks. You'll recognize the plate shape as something seen on, say, a Brown Bess lockplate, just to give an example. The plate on your lock does not have this smooth banana profile, it has the protruding bulges typical of the earlier "fecho de molinhas". Not only that, the original molinhas locks have the rearmost bulge extended into a tapering, rounded tail. The shape of this posterior profile is necessitated by the design of the molinhas sear system which I have said is derived from wheellock sears. Your lock, which is the hybrid, has a stubbier tail; the French sear and spring don't take up as much room and a much shorter plate is needed. The nod to an earlier style of lockplate is more aesthetic than functional. The whole thing gives the impression of an artisan or manufacturer trying to get the best of both worlds -- the simpler French interior mechanism with the more traditional-looking or archaistic molinhas lockplate shape. Based on this, I don't think that the lock is Portuguese, of the period when the system was in vogue in its homeland. If it's a Liege knockoff for the colonial trade, I would think that the major parts would be largely shaped by machine. Is the lockplate of uniform thickness throughout? Are the surfaces more or less even (albeit with file or machining marks) or is there evidence of hand forging (perhaps with some mill scale visible) that one would expect out of a native smithy? Do the screw threads look like they were cut by taps and dies, or are they hand-filed? Any stampings or markings? Answering these questions is a start in trying to figure out its origin. Last edited by Philip; 17th February 2016 at 07:46 AM.

20th February 2016, 04:36 PM	#22
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Hi Phillip. Thanks so much for jumping in this Thread and lending your expertise. Great information! I've now added to my knowledge on this lock style. And I understand what your saying ref the earliest French style internals and the exterior Portuguese styling. Between about 1570 and 1650 there were so many changes, variations, etc. with lock design. This is the first time I've been able to view an early styled Portuguese lock. So, myself, being an honorary member of the arcane lock club, Jeff's lock is very exiting to see LOL JEFF'S LOCK: Due to the dark patina it's a bit hard to tell in the photos, but the lock looks like it's a forging. Again, I can't tell from the photo if there is a full cock notch on the tumbler? Or maybe it is worn down. Maybe Jeff can tell us if the hammer will cock or not? And the "dog" style safety appears to be functional. SOUTH AFRICAN TRADE LOCK: The one I have above is a casting, except for the mainspring. Which is not surprising. Also, what would be the safety in front of the hammer is actually just a hammer stop. This lock was made with the least possible cost of production. Didn't even bother to polish out the castings. LOL Jeff's lock could very well be a locally made copy, or Europen made for export. But as you mentioned, the threads on the lock, etc. could give us better clues. You would think with all the early styled snaphaunce and miquelet locks utilized on these guns, that more than one or two would show up utilizing the Portuguese styled lock. But then, as Phillip mentions, the Portuguese styled lock never really caught on outside it's homeland. Which may be why we don't see them. So maybe I'm answering my own question. Jeff: Thanks again for posting this lock. Much appreciated. Feel free to post any additional photos while the lock is off the gun. LOL Rick.

20th February 2016, 07:42 PM	#23
stenoyab Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43	Thank you for the interesting info Phillip. I tend to think mine is no earlier than mid 1850's due to overall condition, but obviously the lock could be earlier. It cocks and fires fine and the safety catch works to hold the hammer back. If you look at the screws the slots are very much off centre, Heres some close up photos of the rear of the lock. Attached Images Last edited by stenoyab; 20th February 2016 at 08:03 PM.

21st February 2016, 11:06 PM	#24
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	Horses of a different color The above detail photos are much appreciated! And thanks, Sten, for the comments on how well yours works. The clarification regarding the "thingie"in front of the cock is most useful, based on that I need to amend my prior post slightly in order to keep things straight: 1. If the projection is a functioning manual safety, (as opposed to a hammer-stop as you'd find on, say, a Scottish snaphaunce, then the proper term for this type of lock is indeed "fecho meio à portuguesa e meio à francesa" as I have said earlier. HOWEVER-- 2. If it is an immobile stop for the cock's forward fall AND IS NOT A PIVOTING SAFETY PAWL, then the lock is called a "fecho de nò" or "knot lock". This is a simpler predecessor to the portuguesa/francesa type and was known as early as the second half of the 17th cent. So the later, possibly Liege-made lock for the African colonial trade in the previous pics is a last-gasp manifestation of the knot lock. You might be interested in what the Portuguese thought of these locks back in the day, judging from the opinions of the smiths who wrote ESPINGARDA PERFEYTA (by C. Fiosconi and J. Guserio, in Lisbon 1718): "[knot locks are not] capable of being fired in the air (i.e. muzzle elevated) since they are too stiff when pulling the trigger, and if it be wished to make them softer (i.e. easier to cock), they also become unsafe and easily uncock themselves, since the mechanism has only two parts of poor shape, and if many persons make use of them, it is because they are cheaper." "Locks which are half Portuguese and half French are much better than those we have described, although they are slow in uncocking (i.e. have a sluggish hammer-fall), but much more durable, having the half-cock brake in the Portuguese style, outside, for which reason they must be applied to muskets and pistols, for also with them the stock is more elegant since they lave the [lock]plates in the French style." I agree that the version of the Portuguesa/Francesa lock on the Algerian gun in this thread looks to be a handmade native copy, not an industrially-made cheap European export product. It couldn't be all that bad, though, since it works!

28th February 2016, 07:48 PM	#25
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Sten: Thanks so much for the additional photos. I agree with Philip that it appears to be a locally made native copy. And that it is still in working condition is even better. As I mentioned, this is only the second time I've seen this style lock mounted to a gun. By the way, I too like the sling on the gun. The whole gun has a very "tribal" look to it. Philip: Thanks again for the great information on this lock style. Most interesting. As a side note, here is a new made copy of a Portuguese style gun utilizing a similar lock style. This was built by a contemporary maker here in the USA. He has agreed to make another lock (only) for me, which I could utilize on a shooting gun. Rick Attached Images

1st March 2016, 06:43 AM	#27
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	replica Ricky, Thanks for posting the picture of the reproduction Portuguese-style gun. So good that a gunsmith is interested in making a quality, working replica of an obscure European snaplock mechanism that the vast majority of enthusiasts aren't even aware of. I've seen some contemporary copies of early Scandinavian and Russian snaphaunces (a type so rudimentary that the pancover needs to be opened manually as on a matchlock), these are mind-blowing. Do keep us in the loop when you get your lock and have finished mounting it up onto the gun you're building. Post some pics! Are you aware of the book ESPINGARDA FEITICEIRA / THE BEWITCHED GUN by Rainer Daehnhardt? About the introduction of snap matchlock firearms to the Far East by the Portuguese in the 16th cent., one chapter describes a replica of such a musket made by two Portuguese gunsmiths and presented a couple decades ago to the Japanese government as a goodwill gesture to commemorate the events of 1543.