3 keris for comments please.

hbhansen · 24th January 2016, 09:15 AM

Hi Guys.
I am way out of my collecting area here. What have I got ?
Thank you very much !
Best
HB

Jean · 24th January 2016, 10:13 AM

Hum, only the kris on the right of the picture (from East Java) is a good collectible piece IMO (the front side of the ladrang scabbard is damaged though).
The kris on the left of the pics has a blade which misses its ganja so it is worthless, and the kris in the middle is a very mediocre quality balinese piece.
You should be more selective next time!

Henk · 24th January 2016, 12:32 PM

Sorry Jean,

A bit less crude opinion is much more friendlier.

The third keris is indeed the best one in my opinion too. The crack in the scabbard should be restored and the ukiran should be turned to the other side, just like keris number one.

The first keris isn't so bad and certainly not worthless as you put it. The mendak is missing and can be replaced. The gonjo is missing but could be replaced also. But is it really missing? I can recall a comment of Alan that there are kerisses without out a gonjo. Same like a gonjo iras where the gonjo had been chisseled into the blade.

The keris in the middle is tourist stuff and could be placed in the section: mistakes we never should forget, in the attic, like we all have

And why should HB more selective? What we collect is a matter of personal taste and the thickness of our wallet. Maybe this was a bargain the effort worth.

I see some items from fellow collectors I know i never can afford. I love to see it and i enjoy it while i congratulate the owner. When i can collect a similar item of less quality, but in my opnion a beautiful piece, i'm happy with it.

harrywagner · 24th January 2016, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Hum, only the kris on the right of the picture (from East Java) is a good collectible piece IMO (the front side of the ladrang scabbard is damaged though).
The kris on the left of the pics has a blade which misses its ganja so it is worthless, and the kris in the middle is a very mediocre quality balinese piece.
You should be more selective next time!

I respectfully disagree. Not that I know what I am talking about.

I don't think I had ever seen a Keris until ~2 years ago. That being said, I like the center (darker) one - a lot. I would have bought that one in a heartbeat. Congrats on your find. They look like keepers to me, especially the darker one.

Harry

Gustav · 24th January 2016, 03:25 PM

Yes, the middle one is a real artwork.

Looks like it combines a real (residual) pamor with some "wax reserve dyeing" or something like it.

Very very low level kerisses. And with enthusiastic comments about such blades also the level of this Forum is becoming increasingly low, sorry guys.

harrywagner · 24th January 2016, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

Yes, the middle one is a real artwork.

Looks like it combines a real (residual) pamor with some "wax reserve dyeing" or something like it.

Very very low level kerisses. And with enthusiastic comments about such blades also the level of this Forum is becoming increasingly low, sorry guys.

It is unfortunate that we cannot all live up to your high standard, but I don't recall seeing anything in the forum rules that said newbies were not welcome. It could just be me, or the fact that I am a newbie, but shouldn't we be trying to encourage rather than criticize?

Henk · 24th January 2016, 05:40 PM

Harry,

I understand that you like the center one. I suppose you should handle this one together with a real Balinese keris. Then you will understand the differences. Such a keris was one of the first keris I bought as a boy from my saved pocketmoney because i couldn't afford a real antique one. Also my knowledge was very low to nothing.

Gustav,

My comment on the other two kerisses isn't very enthousiastic. Still the third keris isn't so bad after all and the first one isn't completely worthless.
You're right they're not of royal standard either. Don't critisize a new member with some minor knowledge. Better explain and teach, instead of being rude and cynical.

A. G. Maisey · 24th January 2016, 08:33 PM

A nice, balanced comment Henk.

I cannot disagree with anything you have said.

David · 24th January 2016, 09:34 PM

Hopefully we can all take a breathe here for a moment before continuing....

There, that's better.

Mr. Hansen started this post announcing that he is way out of his collecting area and asking what it is that he has. I believe we are all capable of being both honest AND nice in our responses.
I agree generally with Henk's opinions here, though for me personally i would not bother with a keris missing its gonjo unless the rest of the blade was interesting enough to warrant the work to replace the part. Replacing a gonjo may not be that difficult for some, but it isn't like picking up a replacement mendak. It needs to be forged specifically for the blade.
The keris on the right is probably the keeper here, though it is not an extraordinary blade and seems to be some serious losses to the "bow of the boat" on the wrongko (sheath). It otherwise seems like a fairly original and complete antique piece. And yes, the hilt should be turn 180º around for a proper orientation.
Now for the center Bali keris. The dress is post 1960 tourist style. This may make it collectable if one feels the need to include such dress in their collections and their is an argument for it having such a place i suppose. The blade seems a bit older, but as has been pointed out, it is not a good Bali blade and it does indeed appear that its pamor has been augmented at some latter date with a surface treatment to give the impression that this keris has more going for it than it does in actuality. Harry, while no one should knock anyone else for their opinions here it would be to your benefit to shake off any offense and take note that this is, in fact, not a very good keris for the above stated reasons. It was augmented to deceive and not a particularly good example of Balinese keris arts to begin with.
Gentlemen, we must all remember that members are here to learn and that there is no expected knowledge level for any participant on this forum. Hopefully we live, we look, we listen, we learn.

Jean · 25th January 2016, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henk

Sorry Jean,

A bit less crude opinion is much more friendlier.

The first keris isn't so bad and certainly not worthless as you put it. The mendak is missing and can be replaced. The gonjo is missing but could be replaced also. But is it really missing?

And why should HB more selective?

Hello Henk,
Sorry if my frank opinion looks crude but it was not my intent to be unduly critical but to try to help Mr HBHansen for his future kris purchases and I apologize to him if he feels offended.
And I maintain that the ganja of the first kris is missing since the pejetan cavity extends to the bottom of the blade (not the case for a ganja iras).
Regards

24th January 2016, 09:15 AM	#1
hbhansen Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Denmark Posts: 89	3 keris for comments please. Hi Guys. I am way out of my collecting area here. What have I got ? Thank you very much ! Best HB Attached Images

24th January 2016, 12:32 PM	#3
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Sorry Jean, A bit less crude opinion is much more friendlier. The third keris is indeed the best one in my opinion too. The crack in the scabbard should be restored and the ukiran should be turned to the other side, just like keris number one. The first keris isn't so bad and certainly not worthless as you put it. The mendak is missing and can be replaced. The gonjo is missing but could be replaced also. But is it really missing? I can recall a comment of Alan that there are kerisses without out a gonjo. Same like a gonjo iras where the gonjo had been chisseled into the blade. The keris in the middle is tourist stuff and could be placed in the section: mistakes we never should forget, in the attic, like we all have And why should HB more selective? What we collect is a matter of personal taste and the thickness of our wallet. Maybe this was a bargain the effort worth. I see some items from fellow collectors I know i never can afford. I love to see it and i enjoy it while i congratulate the owner. When i can collect a similar item of less quality, but in my opnion a beautiful piece, i'm happy with it. Last edited by Henk; 24th January 2016 at 01:06 PM.

24th January 2016, 10:13 AM	#2
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hum, only the kris on the right of the picture (from East Java) is a good collectible piece IMO (the front side of the ladrang scabbard is damaged though). The kris on the left of the pics has a blade which misses its ganja so it is worthless, and the kris in the middle is a very mediocre quality balinese piece. You should be more selective next time!

24th January 2016, 03:25 PM	#5
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,248	Yes, the middle one is a real artwork. Looks like it combines a real (residual) pamor with some "wax reserve dyeing" or something like it. Very very low level kerisses. And with enthusiastic comments about such blades also the level of this Forum is becoming increasingly low, sorry guys.

24th January 2016, 05:40 PM	#7
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Harry, I understand that you like the center one. I suppose you should handle this one together with a real Balinese keris. Then you will understand the differences. Such a keris was one of the first keris I bought as a boy from my saved pocketmoney because i couldn't afford a real antique one. Also my knowledge was very low to nothing. Gustav, My comment on the other two kerisses isn't very enthousiastic. Still the third keris isn't so bad after all and the first one isn't completely worthless. You're right they're not of royal standard either. Don't critisize a new member with some minor knowledge. Better explain and teach, instead of being rude and cynical.

24th January 2016, 08:33 PM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	A nice, balanced comment Henk. I cannot disagree with anything you have said.

24th January 2016, 09:34 PM	#9
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	Hopefully we can all take a breathe here for a moment before continuing.... There, that's better. Mr. Hansen started this post announcing that he is way out of his collecting area and asking what it is that he has. I believe we are all capable of being both honest AND nice in our responses. I agree generally with Henk's opinions here, though for me personally i would not bother with a keris missing its gonjo unless the rest of the blade was interesting enough to warrant the work to replace the part. Replacing a gonjo may not be that difficult for some, but it isn't like picking up a replacement mendak. It needs to be forged specifically for the blade. The keris on the right is probably the keeper here, though it is not an extraordinary blade and seems to be some serious losses to the "bow of the boat" on the wrongko (sheath). It otherwise seems like a fairly original and complete antique piece. And yes, the hilt should be turn 180º around for a proper orientation. Now for the center Bali keris. The dress is post 1960 tourist style. This may make it collectable if one feels the need to include such dress in their collections and their is an argument for it having such a place i suppose. The blade seems a bit older, but as has been pointed out, it is not a good Bali blade and it does indeed appear that its pamor has been augmented at some latter date with a surface treatment to give the impression that this keris has more going for it than it does in actuality. Harry, while no one should knock anyone else for their opinions here it would be to your benefit to shake off any offense and take note that this is, in fact, not a very good keris for the above stated reasons. It was augmented to deceive and not a particularly good example of Balinese keris arts to begin with. Gentlemen, we must all remember that members are here to learn and that there is no expected knowledge level for any participant on this forum. Hopefully we live, we look, we listen, we learn.