Karabela or not?

ariel · 17th January 2006, 02:17 AM

Some time ago, Rivkin commented on the power of "nationalistic sentiment" as a determinant of the value and desirability of swords.
Here is an example:
http://cgi.ebay.com/VERY-OLD-RUSSIAN...QQcmdZViewItem
Yes, this is a karabela, and it commanded a very high price despite being very simple. But, would one pay $4500 for the same sword with an Indo-Persian (Tulwar) or Shamshir-type handle? And this is the only feature that distinguishes it!
We usually associate karabelas with Poland but, IMHO, this one is not: the flattened quillons suggest Balkan origin.

eftihis · 17th January 2006, 08:36 AM

I agree with Ariel! See below the photos of a balkan sword. The blade has allmost the same markings.

Radu Transylvanicus · 17th January 2006, 09:11 AM

Quote : " Yes, this is a karabela, and it commanded a very high price despite being very simple. But, would one pay $4500 for the same sword with an Indo-Persian (Tulwar) or Shamshir-type handle? And this is the only feature that distinguishes it! "
I hear peacock and turkey taste the same, yet the price to pay for one is very different that 'cause one is a lot more harder to come by. That alone might answer your question to a good extent, without opening useless polemics regarding practicality.

wolviex · 17th January 2006, 09:48 AM

It's very nice karabela. The hilt is not typical but the handle is just like those described in Polish books as "war karabelas". I would call it Turkish, and this is probably Turkish with European blade of characteristic profile for those from 17th century. European blades with Turkish hilts are nothing uncommon, and are often seen together. Those markings are well known for me, and appearing quite often, thought I must have sclerosis because I can't remember where: nimchas?, schiavonas?

come on, help

Conclusing: Turkey, ca. half of the 17th century, blade European (Italy?).

And it was bought by my countryman

17th January 2006, 02:17 AM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Karabela or not? Some time ago, Rivkin commented on the power of "nationalistic sentiment" as a determinant of the value and desirability of swords. Here is an example: http://cgi.ebay.com/VERY-OLD-RUSSIAN...QQcmdZViewItem Yes, this is a karabela, and it commanded a very high price despite being very simple. But, would one pay $4500 for the same sword with an Indo-Persian (Tulwar) or Shamshir-type handle? And this is the only feature that distinguishes it! We usually associate karabelas with Poland but, IMHO, this one is not: the flattened quillons suggest Balkan origin.

17th January 2006, 08:36 AM	#2
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 507	Balkan karabela I agree with Ariel! See below the photos of a balkan sword. The blade has allmost the same markings. Attached Images

17th January 2006, 09:11 AM	#3
Radu Transylvanicus Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: 2008-2010 Bali, 1998-2008 USA Posts: 271	Quote : " Yes, this is a karabela, and it commanded a very high price despite being very simple. But, would one pay $4500 for the same sword with an Indo-Persian (Tulwar) or Shamshir-type handle? And this is the only feature that distinguishes it! " I hear peacock and turkey taste the same, yet the price to pay for one is very different that 'cause one is a lot more harder to come by. That alone might answer your question to a good extent, without opening useless polemics regarding practicality. Last edited by Radu Transylvanicus; 17th January 2006 at 11:03 AM.

17th January 2006, 09:48 AM	#4
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	It's very nice karabela. The hilt is not typical but the handle is just like those described in Polish books as "war karabelas". I would call it Turkish, and this is probably Turkish with European blade of characteristic profile for those from 17th century. European blades with Turkish hilts are nothing uncommon, and are often seen together. Those markings are well known for me, and appearing quite often, thought I must have sclerosis because I can't remember where: nimchas?, schiavonas? come on, help Conclusing: Turkey, ca. half of the 17th century, blade European (Italy?). And it was bought by my countryman