keris hilt

[paolo]

Hi,
I got this hilt. I guess Bali, but I have many questions about it :
1) seller said XIX century, IMO later
2) Ivory or bone ?
3) Could someone tell me if the figure depict a divinity and, his name
Thank You
Paolo

[Jean]

Hello Paolo,
Nice balinese hilt, it seems to depict a Shivaistic priest, it is probably not more than 50 years old I think according to the integrated selut for instance. The materials may be marine ivory or deer antler, check the peksi hole and top to detect any porosity. Other opinions are welcome!
Regards

[Green]

Jean;

I'm also learning here...but wouldn't bone have porosity too? how would one distinguish bone, deer horn elephant ivory and other ivories?

I've seen bone that look exactly like elephant ivory (to my untrained eyes) until it was told that it is actually bone... similarly I've seen 'elephant ivory' that is made from mixture of ivory powder and other materials that look quite indistinguishable from the real solid elephant ivory...

[paolo]

Thank You Jean for the inputs. About the peksi hole, I tried to photographe it, but the pic was too bad. It seems to have some porosity in the upper part, but may, also be tool marks (left by the drill).
Paolo

[David]

I am not seeing any Schreger lines which are generally found on elephant ivory. That would be a telltale with you powdered ivory and other material mixture Green that would distinguish it from the real thing. But this is most probably antler or bone. Bone will not always be porous depending upon what bone is used. It is easier to distinguish bone from antler in hand than in most photographs.
I would agree that this is a fairly contemporary hilt made anytime within the last 30-40 years. The hair/headdress of this figure seems unusual for Balinese culture so perhaps this has some Thai or Chinese influence at work.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by Green

Jean;

I'm also learning here...but wouldn't bone have porosity too? how would one distinguish bone, deer horn elephant ivory and other ivories?

I've seen bone that look exactly like elephant ivory (to my untrained eyes) until it was told that it is actually bone... similarly I've seen 'elephant ivory' that is made from mixture of ivory powder and other materials that look quite indistinguishable from the real solid elephant ivory...

Dear Green,
Your question is too complex to be replied simply but let me just say that a hilt made from a cylindrical buffalo bone piece is generally decaying more quickly (becoming more porous) than deer antler in the inner part. This hilt looks in pristine condition in the thinner part (neck) and no defect or cap is visible on top so it is more likely made from deer antler, or possibly marine ivory. However you are right that recently made hilts from buffalo bone could look like ivory. And the distinction between the various types of ivories is another question but you can find good articles about it on Dr Google.
Best regards

[Marcokeris]

I agree 100% to David opinion. The hilt could be also been made in Java or Madura

[David]

This website might be helpful for you Green.
http://www.realorrepro.com/article/I...ake--confusing

[sirek]

Originally Posted by David

This website might be helpful for you Green.
http://www.realorrepro.com/article/I...ake--confusing

maybe this site is also helpful
http://www.fws.gov/lab/ivory_guide.php