Ottoman matchlock examples.

[estcrh]

Images of true Ottoman matchlock rifles/muskets are rare, I have gathered all of the publically available images I know of and posted them here for reference. If anyone has any information or additional images feel free to post them here. It is not uncommon to see Arab or Indian matchlocks etc mistakenly identified as being Ottoman, which is understandable since there are not many real images available to compare to.

[Kubur]

Hi
You are so right.
To me the Arab matchlocks are just the continuation or copies of Ottoman matchlocks, it's the reason why they are so similar.
Best,
Kubur

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi
You are so right.
To me the Arab matchlocks are just the continuation or copies of Ottoman matchlocks, it's the reason why they are so similar.
Best,
Kubur

Kuber, you are probably right, the Ottoman involvement in both Arab lands and India is well documented. What is hard to understand is the almost complete disappearance of Ottoman matchlocks, even Arab matchlocks are not very common while Indian matchlocks are easy to find.

I have read about Individual bedouin tribes that could gather together thousands of matchlock armed men, and the Ottomans used matchlocks in the thousands for several hundered years, were did they all go?

Here is some information on the early use of Ottoman matchlocks from:Ottoman firearms, Janissary matchlocks and flintlocks. "Guns for the Sultan: Military Power and the Weapons Industry in the Ottoman Empire", by Gábor Ágoston, Cambridge University Press, Mar 24, 2005.

[Kubur]

Yep
Also during the 19th a lot of flintlocks have been turn into percussion.
We can assume also that a lot of matchlocks have been turn into flintlocks...

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Yep
Also during the 19th a lot of flintlocks have been turn into percussion.
We can assume also that a lot of matchlocks have been turn into flintlocks...

Kuber, the same could be said for Indian matchlocks as well but somehow many of those have survived, there has to be a better reason why so few Ottoman matchlocks are still around.

Here is some interesting information on the influence of the Ottomans on Indian firearms, it is surprising that the Indian matchlock does not look more like the Ottoman version. I do know of one matchlock that is supposed to be Indian but has an distinctly Ottoman look.

Indian matchlock gun, probably late 18 to early 19 C. 47 inch barrel forged from fine twisted steel (Damascus), with a makers mark and decorated with gold inlay work (worn). Wood stock mounted with steel plates, decorated with ivory inserts and ivory butt . Chiseled muzzle, barrel is reinforced to the stock with bands of leather strips (added later), length 62 inches. The barrel looks older than the stock, probably a secondary use for it, the stock is repaired at the tip.

Ottoman influence of Indian firearms. "The Heirs of Archimedes: Science and the Art of War Through the Age of Enlightenment", by Brett D. Steele, MIT Press, 2005.

[rickystl]

Hi Estcrh.
What an interesting question, and topic for discussion. I've never really thought of it till now. But you're right. I've seen only a handful or less of photos of matchlocks that can be identified as Ottoman. We know from historical records that the matcklocks were used by the Ottomans in large quantities. But as you ask: Where did they go? I don't know. A really good question. Yes, you would think more examples would still exist. I can't even come up with a good theory. LOL.
We know the Ottomans adopted the flintlock, in miquelet form very early after it's introduction. That could account for some of the lack of matchlock specimens today. And converting matchlocks to miquelet may account for some more. And most of the Ottoman Empire firearms I've seen in person or photos all seem to be from the 19th or late 18th Century. So that might also be taken into account. But all that doesn't really answer the question of why SO FEW Ottoman matchlock specimens remain today. You have my brain tied in knots trying to come up with a logical answer. Hmmmmm.
One thing interesting to note about these matchlocks: Wheather Ottoman, Arab, Indian, etc., the trigger/bar to serpentine mechanism are virtually identical on every specimen I've seen. I've never seen one of these guns with a late style European or Japanese style "snapping" matchlock mechanism. So that style must have been consider reliable enough to become standardized accross the Empire.
Rick.

[eftihis]

Nice subject! These 2 are from a German museum.

[eftihis]

And i also found these 2.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by eftihis

Nice subject! These 2 are from a German museum.

Eftihis, thanks for adding your images, the first three I showed are also from a German museum (Museumslandschaft Hessen Kassel). Its not like I have not looked hard and long for additional images, I have even used all manner of variations of words to search including Turkish. I have read that there are now more examples of Ottoman matchlocks preserved outside of Turkey than are left inside of Turkey due to being captured during various wars and being put into museums. If this is true there should be more to find.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by eftihis

And i also found these 2.

Eftihis, the second one is questionable, I have seen it but??? Ottoman barrel remounted maybe?

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by eftihis

Nice subject! These 2 are from a German museum.

Do you happen to have any more images, perhaps larger sizes, especially the full sized ones?

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by rickystl

One thing interesting to note about these matchlocks: Wheather Ottoman, Arab, Indian, etc., the trigger/bar to serpentine mechanism are virtually identical on every specimen I've seen. I've never seen one of these guns with a late style European or Japanese style "snapping" matchlock mechanism. So that style must have been consider reliable enough to become standardized accross the Empire.
Rick.

Rick your right, all of the south east asia matchlocks (Japan, Vietman, Malaysia) were based on the ones made in Goa India which used the short lived European (Bohemian) version of the snap matchlock but the Indians used the Ottoman style matchlock as did the Arabs.

When the Japanese first saw the matchlocks that the Portuguese brought with them to Japan in 1543 they had nothing else to base their own version on. There is some evidence that the Chinese prefered the Ottoman style matchlocks.

"Science among the Ottomans: The Cultural Creation and Exchange of Knowledge", Miri Shefer-Mossensohn, University of Texas Press, Oct 15, 2015.

[estcrh]

Here is another one that is in a German museum, I found it by using a German search term (luntenschlossgewehr Osmanisch), this is an unusual example as it is a combination matchlock and miquelet lock.

This Ottoman rifle is one of the few preserved in the Dresden armory from the relief of Vienna. It was captured at the battle of September 12, 1683 and a year later given as a gift to the Elector Johann Georg III. This weapon has a double lock system. It is equipped with both the ancient matchlock as well as an Ottoman snap lock, both have their own trigger, and can thus be operated separately. This peculiarity of the rifle can be regarded as evidence of a time of change within the Ottoman army, in which more and more innovations from Europe (now militarily superior) were adapted. Length 139 cm, Weight 5418 g.

[estcrh]

Another unusual example from the same German museum, the maker of this one seems to have attempted to add a European flair to the stock, usually it was the Europeans that tried to copy the Ottoman designs. Overall length 147.3 cm, Weight 3512 g.

[rickystl]

WOW!! Great photos and Thread here. Thanks for Posting.

Estcrh: Some comments on the last two gun photos above.

First Photo: Since this gun with both matchlock and flintlock can be dated to at least 1683, does seem to offer evidence of the Ottomans use/experimentation with the miquelet flintlock early on. Almost a transistional piece. It also makes complete sense from a shooters perspective. A warrior could enter a battle with the flintlock primed, at full cock, and ready to fire. But also, the match cord could be lit and ready should the flintlock fail to ignite the priming charge due to a dull flint. The match cord could immediatly be lowered to fire the gun with little extra movement. Also, the flintlock with priming in the pan only (no load in the barrel) would be a quick and efficient way to lite the match cord before loading the barrel. So either or both systems could be used depending on the circumstances. Actually, a very clever system for the period. Super cool gun from both a shooters and historical perspective. Also, I note the ramrod construction for this piece is very similar to early European style matchlocks.

Second Photo: Another really interesting Ottoman gun. Similar to a pre-1650 style English fish tail butt stock. Also note the rear sight. Done in the European style, and positioned just ahead of the breech area like European matchlocks versus the "peep" style rear sight positioned at the rear of the breech as was common with most Ottoman guns.

Rick.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by rickystl

First Photo: Since this gun with both matchlock and flintlock can be dated to at least 1683, does seem to offer evidence of the Ottomans use/experimentation with the miquelet flintlock early on. Almost a transistional piece.

Rick, here is a reference that dates the use of flintlocks by the Ottomans to the "late 16th century", it also states that the matchlock was used "well into the 17th century". I have read that the Ottomans started using matchlocks from the late 15th century/very early 16th century. This would indicate around two hundred years of matchlock use. It looks like the matchlock and flintlock/miguelet co-existed for quite some time.

"Encyclopedia of the Ottoman Empire", Ga ́bor A ́goston, Bruce Alan Masters, 2009.

[estcrh]

Here are a couple of close up images from Eftihis, one shows what look like a small brass tube attached to the stock for a pricker to clean the primer pan hole. The others show the inlay and channels cut into the barrel and the stock inlay.

[Pukka Bundook]

These images were from an Italian auction house earlier this year;
Not a matchlock, but worth looking at!

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

These images were from an Italian auction house earlier this year;
Not a matchlock, but worth looking at!

Pukka, I noticed that recently many Ottoman flintlocks have been for sale, beautiful ones like the one you posted, but it is next to imposible to find a decent matchlock image, here is another one, 16th century, Askeri Muzesi, Istanbul, Turkey.

[estcrh]

Topkapı Palace Museum.

[Pukka Bundook]

Eric,

It could very well be that the above arms with miquelet type locks could have been converted from matchlock.
It would really take very little effort, and with a new panel of decoration where the serpentine came through the stock, would not really show at all.

Another thing I am thinking about, is the Omani matchlocks we see with very fine early barrels, (17th C and a bit later)
We know these were not made in Oman, so, were they re-purposed Ottoman or Persian barrels, salvaged and re-used in later years?
I believe these barrels were Persian, but if so, Did Ottoman recycled arms meet the same fate? (Of being stripped down & barrels sent to another country for re-use? (Could explain the lack of original Ottoman examples.....)

What thinkest thou?

Richard.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Eric,

It could very well be that the above arms with miquelet type locks could have been converted from matchlock.
It would really take very little effort, and with a new panel of decoration where the serpentine came through the stock, would not really show at all.

Another thing I am thinking about, is the Omani matchlocks we see with very fine early barrels, (17th C and a bit later)
We know these were not made in Oman, so, were they re-purposed Ottoman or Persian barrels, salvaged and re-used in later years?
I believe these barrels were Persian, but if so, Did Ottoman recycled arms meet the same fate? (Of being stripped down & barrels sent to another country for re-use? (Could explain the lack of original Ottoman examples.....)

What thinkest thou?

Richard.

Richard, some very good questions, were the Ottomans so efficient in repurposing the matchlocks that we are left with a handful today. It was probably the barrel that was the hardest and most expensive part to produce, there was probably a value in them from other cultures even when they were outdated at home. I can not remember even seeing a Persian matchlock, the flintlocks are quite rare as well, there must have been many at one time, they seen to have disappeared to.

This image supposedly shows how those beautiful barrels were produced.

[Pukka Bundook]

Eric,

Yes, this is the later "Damascus" style twist.
The earlier types were a stub -iron twist, as shown below;

Richard.
Manouchehr M. has some wonderful photos of Persian arms in his book when published, and some very nice photos in his series on Persian arms in Classic Arms Magazine.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Eric,

Yes, this is the later "Damascus" style twist.
The earlier types were a stub -iron twist, as shown below;

Richard.
Manouchehr M. has some wonderful photos of Persian arms in his book when published, and some very nice photos in his series on Persian arms in Classic Arms Magazine.

Richard, here or some detailed examples from the images I posted of Ottoman matchlocks that seem to be of this type or am I wrong.

[Pukka Bundook]

Not wrong Eric,
These are beautiful examples of what we in the west would call a stub twist.

(stub twist, as the preferred material was old iron horseshoe nail stubs)

I have a few old guns with "Twisted stubs" or "Stub twist" stamped on the under-side.

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Eric,

It could very well be that the above arms with miquelet type locks could have been converted from matchlock.

Another thing I am thinking about, is the Omani matchlocks we see with very fine early barrels, (17th C and a bit later)
We know these were not made in Oman, so, were they re-purposed Ottoman or Persian barrels, salvaged and re-used in later years?

Richard.

I have the same feeling...
Kubur

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Eric,

It could very well be that the above arms with miquelet type locks could have been converted from matchlock.
It would really take very little effort, and with a new panel of decoration where the serpentine came through the stock, would not really show at all.


Richard.

Here are two Ottoman matchlocks next to a miquelet for comparison, what do you think.

[Pukka Bundook]

I think the miquelet started out as a matchlock nearly for sure, with the very similar styling.
There is no reason for a miquelet stock to angle behind the breech as does this example, (and the others above) The only thing to cause this, is fashion of former arms, (matchlock) Or,....conversion from said matchlock.

Do nice old matchlock barrels turn up in other places besides Oman? (apart from a few in India that are not the usual Indian/Indo /Persian work)

Richard.
Edited to say these are probably the nicest Ottoman barrels I have ever seen. Thanks for posting them.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

I think the miquelet started out as a matchlock nearly for sure, with the very similar styling.
There is no reason for a miquelet stock to angle behind the breech as does this example, (and the others above) The only thing to cause this, is fashion of former arms, (matchlock) Or,....conversion from said matchlock.

Do nice old matchlock barrels turn up in other places besides Oman? (apart from a few in India that are not the usual Indian/Indo /Persian work)

Richard.
Edited to say these are probably the nicest Ottoman barrels I have ever seen. Thanks for posting them.

If anyone has an example of what they think may be an Ottoman barrel on a non Ottoman stock please post it.

Richard, I have to give the Museumslandschaft Hessen Kassel credit for posting these high resolution photographs from their collection. They have eleven Ottoman examples with three being matchlocks. Here are top views of all eleven for comparison. These guns never turned up in a goofle search due to being described as Luntenschlossgewehr and Schnapphahngewehr.

[eftihis]

The first one looks a bit ottoman in design, what do you think? (the one with the goat hairy skin). The other looks like re-stocked ottoman barel?