Interesting Barong

[drac2k]

This quite large, barong with a 19" blade has an interesting pommel which looks like at one time had a pair of coins on it. Am I correct in this assumption and if so, where could a get the correct coins ?

[Sajen]

Hello Drac2k,

can you provide a close-up? And what is the diameter where the "coin" could have been? And from which material are the scabbard bindings?

Regards,
Detlef

[drac2k]

Here are some more pictures; the area that I think previously held the coins are approx. 5/8"

[Battara]

The pommel form has a lumad look to me while the rest appears Sulu.

Interesting mix. Coins? I'm sure you can find some WWII or earlier Philippine silver coins........

[Sajen]

Much better pictures and nice & interesting barong. Have had once a similar problem, look here:http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=kampilan
I have attached 20 centavo silver coins but can't tell you the diameter for the moment since the kampilan is in other hands for a blade polish and etch. You can do a little bit google search to find out the diameter from this coins. Otherwise you can use also silver disks in the adequate diameter. I would give back the handle his "eyes", it will win beauty by this.

Regards,
Detlef

[drac2k]

Good replies ;it seems like all agree,that there were coins there at one time.I will try to find a couple of 20 centavo silver coins.

[archaeologist]

Nice barong. People seem to agree it had coins, but do you really want to "restore" it that way? Makes it look nicer, I agree, but coins are dated, so now you will have added iffy date information to the piece. Even if you were sure of the original date, and got coins that matched, and even knowing that coins on an artifact can be added at any time in its life.
I say this because one of my frustrations collecting such things is the total lack of history on most of them, which would tell us so much about their story. The most you usually get when you ask the seller is "I bought it from Mr. Y who had it for years" which obviously tells you nothing much you want to know.
I'm not trying to attack anyone here, but I wish everyone would keep better records of where and when and who from, and keep them WITH the artifact, and pass that (and researched info) on to the next owner.
Cheers,
John

[drac2k]

What you have stated has a lot of merit and I do understand your view, however since I am going to keep this piece, I will replace the missing coins ; I look at it as restoring a piece of art.If I do sell it, I'll advise the new owner of what I have done.

[VANDOO]

WHILE IT WOULD BE VERY DESIRABLE AND NICE TO HAVE THE HISTORY WITH THESE OBJECTS IN MOST CASES THAT SHIP HAS SAILED LONG AGO.
WHAT THIS BARONG TELLS US IS THE POSSIBLE ORIGINS OF THE BLADE AND THAT A LATER NON MORO HANDLE FOUND ITS WAY ONTO THE BLADE AT SOME POINT. IT IS LIKELY THE SILVER COINS WERE REMOVED AND LATER SPENT WHEN THE BARONG CHANGED HANDS.
ADDING COINS DOES INTERFERE WITH THE POSSIBLE UNKNOWN DATE AND WILL SUPPLY A DATE THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE CORRECT, BUT IT WILL RESTORE THE ITEM AND IMPROVE ITS LOOKS. IT ALL COMES DOWN TO THE COLLECTOR TO MAKE HIS CHOICES AND HOPEFULLY TO PASS DOWN ANY CHANGES MADE AND ACCURATE INFORMATION HE MAY HAVE WHEN THE ITEMS MOVE ON. THOUGH WE HAVE LOST SO MUCH HISTORY ON MOST ITEMS WE HAVE EXCHANGED IT FOR THE UNKNOWN MYSTERY'S WE PONDER. WELCOME TO THE FORUM

[Robert]

Hello Barry, While I agree with most everything you just pointed I do not believe that adding coins will interfere with dating this piece in any way. We have no idea whether the coins would have been new ones or old ones when they were added to the hilt. Even if the original coins used were still present they really cannot be relied on as any indicator of age as this piece could have just as easily been made earlier or later than the coins themselves.

Best,
Robert

[drac2k]

In regards to using a pair of 20 centavo silver coins, I thought I would get some dated between 1903 and 1917 ; I realize that this would be purely subjective, so maybe a pair of silver medallions would be less chronologically misleading,however in all probability ,less factually correct.
Then, do we ask ourselves, should we retip a broken sword , take out nicks from a blade, wrap a handle ,etc.; should a beautiful fresco or oil painting be restored, when we don't even know the composition of the original paints or all of the techniques the artist used.
We should never change the original item, but we have an obligation to preserve it while it is in our care.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by drac2k

In regards to using a pair of 20 centavo silver coins, I thought I would get some dated between 1903 and 1917 ; I realize that this would be purely subjective, so maybe a pair of silver medallions would be less chronologically misleading,however in all probability ,less factually correct.
Then, do we ask ourselves, should we retip a broken sword , take out nicks from a blade, wrap a handle ,etc.; should a beautiful fresco or oil painting be restored, when we don't even know the composition of the original paints or all of the techniques the artist used.
We should never change the original item, but we have an obligation to preserve it while it is in our care.

Agree with you!

[Ian]

Hi drac2k:

Your barung obviously has a lot of Moro features. The scabbard looks Tausug. The hilt, however, is probably from one of the Lumad tribes of Mindanao. The small "ears" reflect what was probably a Visayan influence originally, but are quite popular with the Tagakaolu (living in the vicinity of Davao City), who are culturally part of the Bagobo peoples, the Bagobo themselves, or possibly from groups in Agusan del sur. I have a number of these shaped pommels, some with Filipino coins, with a variety of blades. These hilts appear on kris, small kampilan, sabers, and various bolo forms, but I don't recall seeing such a hilt on a barung before.

Ian.

[drac2k]

Have you or anyone else previously posted "these shaped pommels, " on the forum, that you can direct me to the link; so that it can be a point of reference for my blade.
It is interesting that this hilt is unusual for a barong, but I guess, unlike our modern "throw away," culture , everything was utilized; if you had a perfectly good handle and your barong needed one , there was the quick fix.

[Ian]

Drac2k:

Here are several similar styled hilts, all from the Lumad peoples of Mindanao. I don't recall if I posted these previously on the Forum, If so, they were probably back in the old Archives.

The first composite picture shows hilts of several Bagobo swords. Note the one bottom right.

The next two are from the Tagakaolu who live close to Davao City. One of these has ten centavo coins attached to the ears.

The last one is from the Compostella Valley, Lanao del Sur.

I picked up each of the swords indicated during trips to the Philippines in 2002-2003. These "eared" hilt examples likely date from the early 20th C judging from their general appearance, as do most of the Visayan examples that may serve as a prototype for this style.

Ian.

[Ian]

Here are examples of the Visayan hilt on which I believe the Lumad examples are based. The hilt is typically used on machetes used for routine work, but also on weapons. The style seems to have arisen on Visayan weapons in the late 19th or early 20th C.

The first two pictures below (apologies to Hal for borrowing them from his site--I could not find a good example in my archives) shows a machete from the mid- to late-20th C with this style.

Below that are pictures of a Visayan plamenko knife showing the same features.

Ian

[drac2k]

Thanks, the pictures are a great help ; I like the way one of the coins is nailed off of the center.I looked at my barong and it too had the nail hole off of the center, which has to be more than coincidence !

[Sajen]

Hello Drac2k,

any restore updates?

Regards,
Detlef