Kilij

ariel · 29th December 2005, 05:22 PM

Just ended
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1
This is the most expensive Kilij I have seen on e-bay EVER

What is happening? There is no indication that the blade is special (super-wootz!), no provenance, no dating, no attribution to a historic figure.
The scabbard, although very nice, looks 19th century, as is the flatttened handle .
Was it feeding frenzy or am I missing something important?

Rick · 29th December 2005, 05:50 PM

M.M.T.B. ?
I.... Must..... Have..... This..... Sword.... ?
It will go well with my new Maybach ... ?

Emanuel · 29th December 2005, 05:51 PM

I think they essentially bid for the silver...the glint must have blinded them.

CharlesS · 29th December 2005, 06:06 PM

I wondered the same. I just didn't see anything extraordinary except the scabbard fittings.

Tim Simmons · 29th December 2005, 06:35 PM

Has anyone noticed the quillions are hollow and made up of stamped pieces. If this was a real sword one blow from an opponents weapon would take most of yours away, not very confidence building

. Rhino horn? my horn. Tim

erlikhan · 29th December 2005, 07:06 PM

I copied the number of the same auction and came here to paste it opening a new thread but I see Ariel has moved earlier. So,if this price is the current market average for Turkish swords, I must start fiest because I can count myself as a ultra superb arms investor proven to increase my wealth twice ,triple in a very short time comparing the prices which I have bought similar items

. But I know it is not like that most of the time. Very lucky seller. He at the moment must be suspecting of somebody making him a joke after the unbelievable winning bid. It is even not a "Pala" blade , a Turkish shamshir of classical 19th c. 1st half mountings,and no sign of a clear damascus pattern on the blade. Plus real fighting swords don't come with silver guards as the material is very weak. Even the richest ones have brass guards, which sometimes are silver plated. I have seen often that silver guard is not accepted as a plus but a minus among serious collectors.

Rick · 29th December 2005, 07:22 PM

I think in this case a limited amount of knowledge has been an extremely costly thing .
Bid histories and feedback numbers reveal much .

Henk · 29th December 2005, 09:11 PM

If I would sent the buyer an email with the information I have, the poor guy will take a rope

I handled this sword personally at an auction house. Rhino horn????? No way!!! Horn, yes but very poorly executed. The scabbard is nice with silver fittings. The blade is very flexible and cleaned in a very bad way. The blade gives the idea of a replacement. It looked like an assembled piece. This sword was sold together with a more simple example. That one had a sturdy blade with good patina and a wooden grip with silver nails. Scabbard was also plain. I liked that one much more.
I discussed those swords with the employee of the auction house while I was examening both swords. He had the same opinion.

I know what the seller paid for both swords. Apparently he kept the best one for his own collection and had a very happy X-mas. 2005 certainly was the best year of his life

Tim Simmons · 29th December 2005, 09:43 PM

Although we all know this is not a fighting sword, what is puzzling is that it is not new and looks as though it may be from the early part of the 20th cent as there are undeniable signs of ware. It is very cheaply made, all the silver components look stamped including the scabbard, which is strange as the die would be very expensive, from the pictures it does not look hand raised or repousse work. I have worked on a 'celebrated' British generals sword of the same style, given after a war in the south of Africa, that was fine gold repousse. The rolled silver on the back of the handle says this must have been some sort of presentation piece, as some effort went into the making but even after saying that, would you pay much more than a tank full of petrol? Tim

Jeff D · 30th December 2005, 12:45 AM

I personally would rather have this one Artzi landed recently.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...0%3D%26fvi%3D1

Jeff

29th December 2005, 05:22 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Kilij Just ended http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1 This is the most expensive Kilij I have seen on e-bay EVER What is happening? There is no indication that the blade is special (super-wootz!), no provenance, no dating, no attribution to a historic figure. The scabbard, although very nice, looks 19th century, as is the flatttened handle . Was it feeding frenzy or am I missing something important?

29th December 2005, 05:50 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Syndromes ?? M.M.T.B. ? I.... Must..... Have..... This..... Sword.... ? It will go well with my new Maybach ... ?

29th December 2005, 05:51 PM	#3
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	I think they essentially bid for the silver...the glint must have blinded them.

29th December 2005, 06:06 PM	#4
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	I wondered the same. I just didn't see anything extraordinary except the scabbard fittings.

29th December 2005, 06:35 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Has anyone noticed the quillions are hollow and made up of stamped pieces. If this was a real sword one blow from an opponents weapon would take most of yours away, not very confidence building . Rhino horn? my horn. Tim

29th December 2005, 07:06 PM	#6
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	I copied the number of the same auction and came here to paste it opening a new thread but I see Ariel has moved earlier. So,if this price is the current market average for Turkish swords, I must start fiest because I can count myself as a ultra superb arms investor proven to increase my wealth twice ,triple in a very short time comparing the prices which I have bought similar items . But I know it is not like that most of the time. Very lucky seller. He at the moment must be suspecting of somebody making him a joke after the unbelievable winning bid. It is even not a "Pala" blade , a Turkish shamshir of classical 19th c. 1st half mountings,and no sign of a clear damascus pattern on the blade. Plus real fighting swords don't come with silver guards as the material is very weak. Even the richest ones have brass guards, which sometimes are silver plated. I have seen often that silver guard is not accepted as a plus but a minus among serious collectors.

29th December 2005, 07:22 PM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	I think in this case a limited amount of knowledge has been an extremely costly thing . Bid histories and feedback numbers reveal much .

29th December 2005, 09:11 PM	#8
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	If I would sent the buyer an email with the information I have, the poor guy will take a rope I handled this sword personally at an auction house. Rhino horn????? No way!!! Horn, yes but very poorly executed. The scabbard is nice with silver fittings. The blade is very flexible and cleaned in a very bad way. The blade gives the idea of a replacement. It looked like an assembled piece. This sword was sold together with a more simple example. That one had a sturdy blade with good patina and a wooden grip with silver nails. Scabbard was also plain. I liked that one much more. I discussed those swords with the employee of the auction house while I was examening both swords. He had the same opinion. I know what the seller paid for both swords. Apparently he kept the best one for his own collection and had a very happy X-mas. 2005 certainly was the best year of his life

29th December 2005, 09:43 PM	#9
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Although we all know this is not a fighting sword, what is puzzling is that it is not new and looks as though it may be from the early part of the 20th cent as there are undeniable signs of ware. It is very cheaply made, all the silver components look stamped including the scabbard, which is strange as the die would be very expensive, from the pictures it does not look hand raised or repousse work. I have worked on a 'celebrated' British generals sword of the same style, given after a war in the south of Africa, that was fine gold repousse. The rolled silver on the back of the handle says this must have been some sort of presentation piece, as some effort went into the making but even after saying that, would you pay much more than a tank full of petrol? Tim

30th December 2005, 12:45 AM	#10
Jeff D Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 473	I personally would rather have this one Artzi landed recently. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...0%3D%26fvi%3D1 Jeff