information for ottoman-balkan pistols

[stelio]

Hello
I need help to fund were are from that pistols.
Only i know it since the greek revolution and this type of pistols were manufactured in the northern balkans for ottoman empire .I would like how much information about the country of manufacture and anything else about these pistols if anyone knows . Thank you
Stelios

[Jens Nordlunde]

Maybe if you made the pictures a bit lighter - like this, it would be easier to answer your question.
I do know that it is not always easy to all the wright things - but it witll make it a lot easier for the ones you ask the questions.

[stelio]

I hope this news photo to help

[ward]

The problem you get with these type of pistols is that they are pretty generic. Individually you may find something that leads to at least part of it being manufactured in a particular place. It is like saying I own a ak47 where is it from. Luckily most of these have some kind of stamps so Russia, china, eqypt , yogaslovia, etc, etc, is possible. Where it later got sold and used is a different story.

[Kubur]

Hi Stelios,

These pistols are well known.
They were made in the Balkans.
You can find few lines about them in Elgood's books (Greek arms and Islamic fire arms). I will send you later the pages and the references to the towns mentioned.
Rick will probably tell you more.

Best,
Kubur

[stelio]

Thank you all , and we hope to find other answers to these weapons .
Stelios

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by stelio

Thank you all , and we hope to find other answers to these weapons .
Stelios

Hi Stelio.
That is a nice looking pair of Ottoman horse (kubur) pistols. And a great looking loading (suma) rod to match. And all appear in great condition.
I can't really add much additional information. As metioned above, this is one of the most common type pistol encountered in the Ottoman Empire. Likely made at one of the many gun making centers in the Balkans. Unless made as a pair, I've never seen any two alike. The locks could have been European made and exported to the region for assembly, or locally made copied from their European counterparts. I would have a better idea which if I could view the inside of the lock. The general style of the pistol was made/used for some 200+ years. As mentioned above, the decoration on the stocks, barrels, and locks was done in a generic fashion. I believe this was done so as to appeal to a variety of prospects. On the occassion you do find a mark/signature on the lock or barrel, it could be the maker of the gun, the owner, or the maker of just the lock and/or barrel. So it's very difficult, if not impossible to pinpoint an exact gun making center they were produced.
Again, a very nice pair. Rick.

[ward]

If you think about it making a generic pistol makes sense. You can sell it to turks,greeks, Muslim, christan, etc,. You do not have to do so much explaining as to why a certain workshop was supplying guns to any particular side. Plausible deniability at its finest.

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by ward

If you think about it making a generic pistol makes sense. You can sell it to turks,greeks, Muslim, christan, etc,. You do not have to do so much explaining as to why a certain workshop was supplying guns to any particular side. Plausible deniability at its finest.

Hi Ward.
I totally agree. So many of these guns were made under contract to the Ottoman Empire. But I'm sure many were not. As you say, even if the guns were captured, it would be impossible to trace back to any particular gun shop.
Rick.

[stelio]

Thank you very much Rick.
Really very interesting all this informations.
I have looked for some sign of the manufacturer or for some scripture but there is nothing of them.It is absolutely same in construction and decorative designs
It is a pair where the michanism and barel is identical both arms and there is no difference in design and decoration . I've seen enough of this type in collections and museums but never one pair like this with both very similar.
Stelios

[rickystl]

Hi Stelio.
Occassionally, you will find an untraceable stamp on the lock. But usually these pistols are unmarked for reasons above. Your's were obviously made as a pair.
And a very nice pair indeed.

Warriors of the Ottoman Empire preferred to load their pistols with a seperate suma rod, as shown above, suspended with a throng around the neck. So the so called "false" ramrod design on the bottom of the fore ends was simply a styling excercise.

Europeans would often carry a pair of horse pistols in a pair of holsters (called frogs) mounted on the horse saddles. Whereas, the Ottoman Region often preferred to carry their pistols in a single double frog holster suspended over the shoulder similar as shown below.
Rick.