Keris' from Holsteins book

Jens Nordlunde · 28th July 2015, 02:25 PM

Maisay, I promissed you pictures of some of the keris' shown in Holsteins book. Here are some.

P.Holstein: Contribition a L'Etude des Armes Orientales, vol. I. Albert Lévy, Paris 1931(?).

Jens Nordlunde · 28th July 2015, 03:34 PM

From vol. II

Jens Nordlunde · 28th July 2015, 03:37 PM

Still vol. II

A. G. Maisey · 28th July 2015, 10:27 PM

Thank you Jens.

Two questions:-

1) is provenance given for the items shown?

2) what was the approximate date of acquisition of the oldest item shown?

Thank you,

Alan.

Gustav · 28th July 2015, 10:40 PM

The last four plates in the first post are copyed from Groneman, kerisses are made for him by Karjo di Kromo.

A. G. Maisey · 28th July 2015, 11:57 PM

Thanks Gustav.

Jens Nordlunde · 29th July 2015, 09:25 AM

Alan,
I will later to day write the short version of the catalogue text. Should you disagree with the text please remember that Holstein wrote the text - I did not :-).

Jens Nordlunde · 29th July 2015, 01:53 PM

I start with the first plate, the second and so on.
The plates are show in the following order.
Vol. I - XXV, XXVII, XXVIII, XXIX, XXX and XXXI.
Vol. II - XLII, XLI, XL, XXXIX, XXXVIII, XXXVII, XLIII, XLIV, XLV, XLVII, XLVI and XLVIII.

Holstein, vol I.
Plate XXV - no name given. Collection Ch. Buttin (54).

Plate XXVII - Th. S. Raffels.

Plate XXVIII - According to J. Groneman. Kriss de Java. 1. Dapor Djalak Tilam Sari. Pamor was-wutah. 2. Dapor Djalak ngore. Sekar Pala. 3. Dapor Djalak Tilam upih, ou Tilam upih. Pamor Sekar ngadeg. 4. Dapor Tilam sari. Pamor blarak-ngirid.

Plate XXIX - According to J. Groman. Kriss de Java. 5. Dapor Djalak Sudjen Ampel. Pamor Sekar temu. 6. Dapor Pasopati. Pamor sekar Pala. 7. Dapor Parung-tedja. Pamor sekar Pala. 8. Dapor Tilam-upih.

Plate XXX - Kriss de Java according to J. Groneman.

Plate XXXI - Kriss de Java according to J. Groneman.

Holstein, vol. II. There are no name references on the next tvelve plates.
Plate XLII - Panimbal de Bali - 183. Naga seluman - 191.

Plate XLI - Kriss naga Sasra de Java ou Bali - 9. Kriss brodjol de Java ou Bali - 303. Kriss naga sasra de Bali - 79.

Plate XL - Kriss singa de Soura Karta (Java) - 190. Kriss pasopati de Soura Karta (Java) - 283. Kriss brodjol de Soura Karta (Java) - 307.

Plate XXXIX - Kriss vieux, bango-dolok de Madjapaahit (Java) - 300. Kriss naga sasra de Soura Karta (Java) - 190.

Plate XXXVIII - Kriss bener naga sasra krana tinanding - 286. Kriss brodjol de Java - 301.

Plate XXXVII - Kriss brodjol de Djodjakarta (Java) - 16. Kriss sangelat de Dkodjakarta (Java) - 280.

Still vol. II.
Plate XLIII - Kriss brodjol ou Tilam upih, de Bali ou Madoura - 80. Kriss sangkelat de Bali - 114. Kriss naga sasra de Bali - 115. Kriss Paniwen de Sumatra - 165.

Plate XLIV - Kriss petit, de Sumatra - 193. Kris singa de Sumatra ou Singapour - 28. Kriss sempana Kelintang, de Sumatra ou Singapour - 305. Kriss sangkelat de Sumatra ou Singapour - 306. Kriss brodjol de Singapour - 89.

Plate XLV - Kriss sangelat des Bougghis, de Singapour ou Bangka - 35. Kriss pisopati des Bougghis, de Singapour ou Bangka - 248. Kriss sangelat des Bougghis - 247. Kriss Brodjol des Bougghis - 249.

Plate XLVII - Kalis, grand Kriss Kriss de l'Archipel de Soulou - 54. Kriss Tjoendrick de Bali - 81.

Plate XLVI - Kriss Bango dolok des Bougghis - 83. Kriss sangkelat des Célèbes - 304. Kriss brodjol des Célèbes - 309. Kalis, grand Kriss de l'Archipel de Soulou - 54.

Plate XLVIII - Kriss Bahari d'Atjeh (Sumatra) - 104. Same text - 106. Same text - 152. Same text - 250. Klewang ou Lameng (Java) - 122. Klewang ou Lameng (Bornéo) - 127.

Sorry for the mess in the plate numbers.
I hope you understand anything of the text above, as I understand very little.
Jens

A. G. Maisey · 29th July 2015, 02:09 PM

Thank you very much for your effort Jens.

Yes, I can easily match the text to the photos, the words used are near enough to enable ID.

Thanks again.

Alan.

David · 29th July 2015, 03:21 PM

Thanks Jens. A great collection of illustrations.

Jens Nordlunde · 29th July 2015, 04:30 PM

Alan,
Did you once upon a time say that you would show me katar used in you area of interest?

Do you know this book? Majumdar, R. C.:Suvarnadvipa – Hindu Colonies of the Far East. Vol. I-II. 1937. CosmoPublications, reprint 2004.
Jens

A. G. Maisey · 29th July 2015, 10:16 PM

I may have Jens, I've actually got two, probably around 1900, in pretty poor condition and lacking their cross handle, which in the Javanese version of these is wood. However, I'm afraid that at the moment I am not able to access where I have these stored.

If you go here, and scroll down to the first showcase pics, there is a Solonese katar in the left case.

http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/radyapustaka.html

Only a small image, but the salient details are clear.

No, I have not seen that book.

It seems that it is available online. I've just done a quick scan of contents and much of what I have just seen is familiar to me.

In respect of the Holstien plates you have posted, are any of the items shown here dated?

If so, I would appreciate your advice of any item reliably dated to before 1700.

Thanks,

Alan.

Photo of Jawa katar in Musium Radya Pustaka, crop from a very much larger image. My apologies for quality

28th July 2015, 02:25 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Keris' from Holsteins book Maisay, I promissed you pictures of some of the keris' shown in Holsteins book. Here are some. P.Holstein: Contribition a L'Etude des Armes Orientales, vol. I. Albert Lévy, Paris 1931(?). Attached Images Last edited by Jens Nordlunde; 28th July 2015 at 03:37 PM.

28th July 2015, 03:34 PM	#2
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	From vol. II Attached Images

28th July 2015, 03:37 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Still vol. II Attached Images

28th July 2015, 10:40 PM	#5
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,246	The last four plates in the first post are copyed from Groneman, kerisses are made for him by Karjo di Kromo. Last edited by Gustav; 28th July 2015 at 10:52 PM.

29th July 2015, 01:53 PM	#8
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	I start with the first plate, the second and so on. The plates are show in the following order. Vol. I - XXV, XXVII, XXVIII, XXIX, XXX and XXXI. Vol. II - XLII, XLI, XL, XXXIX, XXXVIII, XXXVII, XLIII, XLIV, XLV, XLVII, XLVI and XLVIII. Holstein, vol I. Plate XXV - no name given. Collection Ch. Buttin (54). Plate XXVII - Th. S. Raffels. Plate XXVIII - According to J. Groneman. Kriss de Java. 1. Dapor Djalak Tilam Sari. Pamor was-wutah. 2. Dapor Djalak ngore. Sekar Pala. 3. Dapor Djalak Tilam upih, ou Tilam upih. Pamor Sekar ngadeg. 4. Dapor Tilam sari. Pamor blarak-ngirid. Plate XXIX - According to J. Groman. Kriss de Java. 5. Dapor Djalak Sudjen Ampel. Pamor Sekar temu. 6. Dapor Pasopati. Pamor sekar Pala. 7. Dapor Parung-tedja. Pamor sekar Pala. 8. Dapor Tilam-upih. Plate XXX - Kriss de Java according to J. Groneman. Plate XXXI - Kriss de Java according to J. Groneman. Holstein, vol. II. There are no name references on the next tvelve plates. Plate XLII - Panimbal de Bali - 183. Naga seluman - 191. Plate XLI - Kriss naga Sasra de Java ou Bali - 9. Kriss brodjol de Java ou Bali - 303. Kriss naga sasra de Bali - 79. Plate XL - Kriss singa de Soura Karta (Java) - 190. Kriss pasopati de Soura Karta (Java) - 283. Kriss brodjol de Soura Karta (Java) - 307. Plate XXXIX - Kriss vieux, bango-dolok de Madjapaahit (Java) - 300. Kriss naga sasra de Soura Karta (Java) - 190. Plate XXXVIII - Kriss bener naga sasra krana tinanding - 286. Kriss brodjol de Java - 301. Plate XXXVII - Kriss brodjol de Djodjakarta (Java) - 16. Kriss sangelat de Dkodjakarta (Java) - 280. Still vol. II. Plate XLIII - Kriss brodjol ou Tilam upih, de Bali ou Madoura - 80. Kriss sangkelat de Bali - 114. Kriss naga sasra de Bali - 115. Kriss Paniwen de Sumatra - 165. Plate XLIV - Kriss petit, de Sumatra - 193. Kris singa de Sumatra ou Singapour - 28. Kriss sempana Kelintang, de Sumatra ou Singapour - 305. Kriss sangkelat de Sumatra ou Singapour - 306. Kriss brodjol de Singapour - 89. Plate XLV - Kriss sangelat des Bougghis, de Singapour ou Bangka - 35. Kriss pisopati des Bougghis, de Singapour ou Bangka - 248. Kriss sangelat des Bougghis - 247. Kriss Brodjol des Bougghis - 249. Plate XLVII - Kalis, grand Kriss Kriss de l'Archipel de Soulou - 54. Kriss Tjoendrick de Bali - 81. Plate XLVI - Kriss Bango dolok des Bougghis - 83. Kriss sangkelat des Célèbes - 304. Kriss brodjol des Célèbes - 309. Kalis, grand Kriss de l'Archipel de Soulou - 54. Plate XLVIII - Kriss Bahari d'Atjeh (Sumatra) - 104. Same text - 106. Same text - 152. Same text - 250. Klewang ou Lameng (Java) - 122. Klewang ou Lameng (Bornéo) - 127. Sorry for the mess in the plate numbers. I hope you understand anything of the text above, as I understand very little. Jens Last edited by Jens Nordlunde; 29th July 2015 at 02:07 PM.

28th July 2015, 10:27 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,887	Thank you Jens. Two questions:- 1) is provenance given for the items shown? 2) what was the approximate date of acquisition of the oldest item shown? Thank you, Alan.

28th July 2015, 11:57 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,887	Thanks Gustav.

29th July 2015, 09:25 AM	#7
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Alan, I will later to day write the short version of the catalogue text. Should you disagree with the text please remember that Holstein wrote the text - I did not :-).

29th July 2015, 02:09 PM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,887	Thank you very much for your effort Jens. Yes, I can easily match the text to the photos, the words used are near enough to enable ID. Thanks again. Alan.

29th July 2015, 03:21 PM	#10
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,119	Thanks Jens. A great collection of illustrations.

29th July 2015, 04:30 PM	#11
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Alan, Did you once upon a time say that you would show me katar used in you area of interest? Do you know this book? Majumdar, R. C.:Suvarnadvipa – Hindu Colonies of the Far East. Vol. I-II. 1937. CosmoPublications, reprint 2004. Jens

29th July 2015, 10:16 PM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,887	I may have Jens, I've actually got two, probably around 1900, in pretty poor condition and lacking their cross handle, which in the Javanese version of these is wood. However, I'm afraid that at the moment I am not able to access where I have these stored. If you go here, and scroll down to the first showcase pics, there is a Solonese katar in the left case. http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/radyapustaka.html Only a small image, but the salient details are clear. No, I have not seen that book. It seems that it is available online. I've just done a quick scan of contents and much of what I have just seen is familiar to me. In respect of the Holstien plates you have posted, are any of the items shown here dated? If so, I would appreciate your advice of any item reliably dated to before 1700. Thanks, Alan. Photo of Jawa katar in Musium Radya Pustaka, crop from a very much larger image. My apologies for quality Attached Images Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 29th July 2015 at 10:45 PM. Reason: add foto