African small sword id request

[Roland_M]

Hello All,

I hope, someone can identify this African sword. After some months of researching I’m still completely stumped.

The well forged rectangular blade weighs 700 Gramm, measures 26 ¾ “ (68cm) without and 32 ½ “ (82,5 cm) including the hilt. The blade is only forged and neither grinded nor polished but has quite sharp edges.

The hilt is made from metal (probably lead or tin), which was casted around the tang of the blade and finally wrapped with leather. I think the leather stripes are blood stoppers. The heavy hilt is responsible for the very good balance of the sword (PoB ~5" from the end of hilt).

The leather cord on the hilt is a very narrow sword knot and provides additional control over the sword.

The scabbard is made from sheet iron and wrapped with leather.

I’m unsure what it is, a dance sword or real weapon? If it is a dance sword, it is a very effective and powerful dance sword.

The blade was a little rusty, while I received it. I removed the rust with a metal polish and the rust was very brown, not the usual red. Some years ago I read that this is a sign for real African steel.


Thanks for every comment

Roland

[Henk]

Not my field at all, but i believe this is a manding sword. I wouldn't call it a sword actually because it hasn't an edge. Looks more like an iron stick.

In my eyes for ritual purpose and probably made for those who like to travel.

[fernando]

So sorry for the bad impression Roland, but ...
It will be good news if this is not a rather modern touristic item ?

[Iain]

Originally Posted by Henk

Not my field at all, but i believe this is a manding sword. I wouldn't call it a sword actually because it hasn't an edge. Looks more like an iron stick.

In my eyes for ritual purpose and probably made for those who like to travel.

This. Seen quite a few over the years and none struck me as particularly old. Perhaps a take on a sword stick style due to colonial influence?

[Kubur]

From Tchad or somewhere around and I would say tourist...
Best, Kubur

[Tim Simmons]

This is a traditional weapon just happens to be new.

[Jim McDougall]

Roland, thank you for posting this, and for your interest in pursuing more on the nature and origins of this unusual item. I believe it is a traditional item perhaps used in ceremonial events and while clearly quite modern, reflecting the styling long standing.
It seems to have character of items from Manding culture but these were diffused widely into adjoining regions and tribal groups.

These kinds of items (often tempting to think of in the sense of European sword canes) may be vestigial forms of earlier pieces which were actually bladed. It seems inherent in many, if not even most, unusual African arms and armour, that many of these were rather iconic and symbolic and used in the extremely important events and activities of these tribal peoples.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

This is interesting since it appears to be related to African Sticks...
Is it more a stick than a sword? Could it be related to the style of weapon seen at https://barbadosunderground.wordpres...stick-licking/ which came to Barbados and the Carribbean region from the Congo...?

I looked at a close cousin of sticks..The whip like Sjambok but the project example here seems to be more stick or sword orientated. Looking up African Sword Sticks now...and I follow the detail stated by Jim as to the ceremonial aspect of sticks Knob Kerries and all...in the Manding and related tribal groups...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Roland_M]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

This is interesting since it appears to be related to African Sticks...
Is it more a stick than a sword? Could it be related to the style of weapon seen at https://barbadosunderground.wordpres...stick-licking/ which came to Barbados and the Carribbean region from the Congo...?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Hello All,

thanks for all the answers. I'm no expert for African swords. I think, it is either a weapon or a ritual sword. It is too good for a simple tourist piece. I would expect a simple wooden hilt on a tourist souvenir. Maybe the blade itself is older than the rest of the sword.

I would compare it with an european estoc sword, the estoc also can have a rectangular cross section with unsharp cutting edges but a long and needle sharp point.

All i can say is, that it has a very good balance and an impressive thrusting power like a rapier but without the typical flexibility. The cutting edges are not really sharp but strong enough to break bones. The blade is hardened.

It is definitely no walking stick, it is too heavy and the lower end of the scabbard is too sharp for that purpose.

I do not fully understand the term "iron stick". In my opinion an iron stick with a sharp and long point is a sword or a sword like object.


Best wishes, Roland

[Tim Simmons]

There are many forms of stiletto type daggers in West African. I post these examples years ago. Also one very similar to the one in question I feel sure I post it on the forum but cannot find it.

[colin henshaw]

My feeling is the item posted by Roland_M is a pure West African tourist item and the rough iron "stick" is a supposed to be a sword blade, but just made as quickly and cheaply as possible.

[Tim Simmons]

Colin if that is the case, I know the blade is rather like a giant hand made nail, why spend so much time on the scabbard??

[trenchwarfare]

The end of the scabbard is not shown. Does it have fringe like the hilt? If yes, it could be a riding crop. Or form of swagger stick. As stated. a throw back to colonial times. Almost all regions of the world incorporated blades into crops, and swagger sticks. But still, modern tourista.

[Iain]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Colin if that is the case, I know the blade is rather like a giant hand made nail, why spend so much time on the scabbard??

Because the fancy leather work sells well, might be an answer? While the skill in metal work seems to have dropped off in the 20th century the leather workers do not seem to have been so effected.

Roland,

I think the main thing is if you enjoy the piece. Its quite clear from the photos that the leather work is not particularly old. The line begins to blur at times between something recent made for tourists and made for local use in these areas. At times it may well simply be a case of who buys it.

[colin henshaw]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Colin if that is the case, I know the blade is rather like a giant hand made nail, why spend so much time on the scabbard??

The comment by Iain must be the correct reason, it makes the object both pretty and exotic looking. There seems to be a clear genre of these West African "made for sale" items.... spears with rough metal heads, tins with lids, walking sticks, batons and odd-looking daggers. They all seem to have the same wine coloured leather base with plaited leather-work in narrow strips. Occasionally bits of leopard or other wild cat fur is incorporated. Some of these "tourist" objects can be fairly old, even going back to the 1930/40's is my guess ?

But I also think its true to say that African tourist objects often derive from older patterns made for purely indigenous use and usually of a much higher quality (time and labour). The dividing line between tourist and indigenous use is often blurred and hard to define...

[Tim Simmons]

Just thought this is worth some follow up.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...d=1#post187616