Age of indian sword?

[Drabant1701]

Can anyone date this sword? Is it called tulwar or talwar or may be somethimng else?

[spiral]

Originally Posted by Drabant1701

Can anyone date this sword? Is it called tulwar or talwar or may be somethimng else?

Yes it is a tulwar or talwar , {same word just different imagining of how to spell it in English.}

To my eye Id say the blade is old & the is hilt brand new....

[Tipperary]

This looks like a 19th Century blade that has seen better days and has been remounted in a much more recent hilt. At least some of the old skills in metalworking are not dead yet. However its a shame that they are being used to less than ideal effect.

[BANDOOK]

Originally Posted by spiral

Yes it is a tulwar or talwar , {same word just different imagining of how to spell it in English.}

To my eye Id say the blade is old & the is hilt brand new....

YES TALWAR ,AM SURE ITS A REPRODUCTION..LOT OF FAKES GOING AROUND SOLD AS ANTIQUES ,BE CAREFUL WHILE BUYING ON EBAY

[Drabant1701]

That you for your thoughts. Since it was described only as "Sabre 92cm", it was not stated as old either I cant say that seller missrepresented it.

[Drabant1701]

Can anyone explain to me as a novice how you see that the hilt is later. As comparde to say this http://www.ashokaarts.com/img/produc...ztul2-1578.jpg

[ALEX]

Originally Posted by BANDOOK

YES TALWAR ,AM SURE ITS A REPRODUCTION..LOT OF FAKES GOING AROUND SOLD AS ANTIQUES ,BE CAREFUL WHILE BUYING ON EBAY

Really? The fact that there are many reproductions on eBay does not mean that all Indian tulwars are fake now
There was a similar discussion regarding old, bad quality Indian Katars, and people jump to conclusions all over without substantiating.
What makes you think that this Tulwar is brand new (including the handle)?

[CharlesS]

I'd like to see better pics and possibly an etch of the blade, but I am not entirely...or even at all...convinced that this piece is "brand new".

Did it come from India? or elsewhere?

Could we get pics of the top side and inside of the pommel.

I suspect if this blade is etched it may show Indian style crystalline wootz steel....and not the new type.

The heavy silver koftgari is not a style or quality typical to reproductions.

...I'd have too see more to have an opinion.

[ALEX]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

I'd like to see better pics and possibly an etch of the blade, but I am not entirely...or even at all...convinced that this piece is "brand new".

Did it come from India? or elsewhere?

Could we get pics of the top side and inside of the pommel.

I suspect if this blade is etched it may show Indian style crystalline wootz steel....and not the new type.

The heavy silver koftgari is not a style or quality typical to reproductions.

...I'd have too see more to have an opinion.

This is a proper approach coming from truly experienced professional, accomplished collector and highly esteemed colleague. Bravo, Charles!

[Runjeet Singh]

To my eye this sword is 19th Century and completely genuine. How do I know? Now that is a difficult question, I think you just have to look at lots of originals and compare them to the fakes.

The fakes that are coming out of India, always have technical inaccuracies. They are either too poor in quality, or so perfect it looks obvious. The forgers cannot seem to get the balance. Proportions, weights and sizes also prove difficult areas for these people to grasp.

I don't want to go into specifics, so not to give the forgers too much info, but there are tell tale signs on this sword to indicate its age.

Hope that helps,
Runjeet Singh.

[Roland_M]

Originally Posted by Drabant1701

Can anyone date this sword? Is it called tulwar or talwar or may be somethimng else?

Hello, The blade looks old and i am pretty sure it is mechanical damask (first picture, back edge, close to the ricasso). I would say 19th century.

The hilt must not be new! This hilt was maybe repolished, i can see some corrosion on the outer diameter of the pommel.

Regards Roland

[Drabant1701]

Now it was bought at a smaller auction house in Sweden. I will post some more pictures for your consideration. If it looks like I am not reading your replies its because its a delay to my post since I am a new user, so when my post appers there I might allready have been given an answer.

[CharlesS]

This is no new sword. The wear on the hilt and pommel is in all the right places. The resin holding the blade in the pommel is exactly what you want to see. Certainly the blade could be a pattern weld or crystalline damascus wootz...only an etch will tell. The black spots on the blade and very minor pitting all look legit to me.

Congrats...you got yourself a good old tulwar with a hilt in very nice condition.

[spiral]

Originally Posted by spiral

Yes it is a tulwar or talwar , {same word just different imagining of how to spell it in English.}

To my eye Id say the blade is old & the is hilt brand new....

I bow to my more learned colleges experience..

In the initial photo It looks like a hilt a friend of mine had had made in India a few years back. It appears I was wrong...

[CharlesS]

No worries Spiral! You are absolutely right to be a bit cynical. The stuff coming out of India tends to come in a variety of qualities, some awful, some very good, especially old dagger blades with new koftgari.

I think Runjeet said it best, noting the the newbies just aren't quite right in one way or another.

I was very interested in a dagger at the Vegas show, but I knew that repros were being made of the same type, so I convinced myself it must be a fake, then Runjeet and I huddled over it and he thought I was wrong and explained why...without that insight I never would have bought it.

Beware, they are reproducing dhas in Thailand now and dha lover will recognize the newbies instantly, but a novice might not. Those often end up on Ebay too.

....just another reason I love the knowledge and experience shared on this forum!

[ashoka]

Nice old super-thick silver koftgari in great condition, a very nice hilt indeed. I have noticed over the years that this type of thick silver koftgari hilts generally have surprisingly plain blades as this one appears to be, I have also had several of this exact type fitted with British pattern 1796 light cavalry blades for some reason, perhaps a fashion for the region they are from..

[ward]

tulwars were rehilted regularly. The blade may or may not have originally been on that hilt. It really does not matter the hilt is old the blade is old. Anybodes guess if it was a marriage later in life

[Drabant1701]

Some sugested that the blade may be wootz or welded steel, I polished a bit of it and etched it. Apparently I am not good at etching, or theres nothing to etch.
To me it looks like layered steel? What do you think? Pardon the bad pictures.

[Gavin Nugent]

Nice old sword. The hilt decoration and type is known and 19th century, it seems many hundreds must have been released from an armoury well over ten years ago as I have crossed many dozens in my travels and had a few too.

Gavin

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Drabant1701

Some sugested that the blade may be wootz or welded steel, I polished a bit of it and etched it. Apparently I am not good at etching, or theres nothing to etch.
To me it looks like layered steel? What do you think? Pardon the bad pictures.

Keep trying and look more past the bottom of the blade. Many of these types are nice wootz blades and are often scarf welded to a mono steel forte or a poorly forged wootz base.

Gavin

[dj]

I have a couple questions:

1) What did you etch the blade with to try and reveal the patterns you are looking for?

2) In other types of antiquities, disruption of the original patina is considered detrimental to the piece. Is there a standard practice, or accepted practice with blades?

Perhaps there are threads here on these questions, but I am new here and haven't run into them yet.

Thanks,

dj