Short sword, band or other type? Lions head with paw on guard

Will M · 2nd February 2015, 06:09 PM

I've never seen one like this only a similar blade. Has a 21 1/2" blade, brass pommel of a lions head and brass guard with a lions paw. The steel blade is relatively thin and somewhat flexible. Grip is leather covered wood.

Will M · 3rd February 2015, 08:37 AM

Described in Lyles 19890 Arms and Armour Review as a French circ 1830 unusual sidearm. 100gbp back then.

fernando · 3rd February 2015, 02:58 PM

It seems as it will no be easy to identify this example.
The blade is surely French; a classic type used in 1816 and 1830/1 models.
Look for inspector marks (poinçons) on the ricasso under the 'lion' paw shield.
By the way, have you cosidered that the paw in the guard may not be from a lion ... a griffon or other beast instead ?
Just guessing ...

Rick · 3rd February 2015, 03:13 PM

Will, could you please upload your pictures directly to this site .
This way if you remove the pictures or cancel your membership at Photobucket they will remain in the database here for the future edification of others .

A little info on the process .

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13631

Will M · 3rd February 2015, 03:21 PM

How do you directly upload photos, they are jpg's?

Will M · 3rd February 2015, 03:34 PM

Fernando I may have assumed without looking too carefully. The paw only has fur at the top across the edge. Unless the maker had never seen a lion this is not a lions paw.

fernando · 3rd February 2015, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will M

How do you directly upload photos, they are jpg's?

Yes basicaly, among others.
When you open the manage attachments option, it's all detailed there.

Will M · 3rd February 2015, 05:50 PM

where is manage attachment? Sorry my posts don't seem to appear for some time

kronckew · 3rd February 2015, 06:18 PM

it's down there under 'attach files'
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fernando · 3rd February 2015, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will M

where is manage attachment? Sorry my posts don't seem to appear for some time

Will, you should have read when you registered that, for security (Spam, etc.) reasons, posts go on a moderation queue until you become a regular member ... which will in principle soon happen.

Will M · 3rd February 2015, 08:17 PM

I didn't scroll down to see it on my screen. The reply to thread is in a box, did not realize there was more below due to the box.
Different way of adding photos in comparison to other forums.

Will M · 4th February 2015, 02:28 AM

I found my picture files too large but easily downsized. I've previewed post but pictures don't show but are shown as valid file extensions above manage attachments.
I agree photos tend to disappear when posted if moved to a folder on photobucket at a later time.

M ELEY · 4th February 2015, 08:09 AM

Really an interesting sword! Not much to add over what the others have already said. Definitely French, not only for the blade, but for the lion pommel (seen on certain types of french swords) and spiral quillons. As I've never seen this pattern before, wondering if it's custom made for an officer? However, I don't underestimate the multiple divisions of troops and their accutrements. Used to have a cuirass of French origin that wasn't identified for over a decade despite the sunburst badge to the front (ended up being a M1863 Carabinier's-

). Point being, perhaps a rarer pattern for a special unit?
mark

kronckew · 4th February 2015, 08:15 AM

they're showing for me, two of them anyway.

fernando · 4th February 2015, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will M

I found my picture files too large but easily downsized. I've previewed post but pictures don't show but are shown as valid file extensions above manage attachments.
I agree photos tend to disappear when posted if moved to a folder on photobucket at a later time.

You get used to it

Will M · 4th February 2015, 05:36 PM

Here is the reverse side of the hilt.

2nd February 2015, 06:09 PM	#1
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 391	Short sword, band or other type? Lions head with paw on guard I've never seen one like this only a similar blade. Has a 21 1/2" blade, brass pommel of a lions head and brass guard with a lions paw. The steel blade is relatively thin and somewhat flexible. Grip is leather covered wood.

3rd February 2015, 03:13 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,290	Will, could you please upload your pictures directly to this site . This way if you remove the pictures or cancel your membership at Photobucket they will remain in the database here for the future edification of others . A little info on the process . http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13631 Last edited by Rick; 3rd February 2015 at 03:41 PM.

3rd February 2015, 06:18 PM	#9
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,178	it's down there under 'attach files' \| \| \| V Attached Images

4th February 2015, 02:28 AM	#12
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 391	I found my picture files too large but easily downsized. I've previewed post but pictures don't show but are shown as valid file extensions above manage attachments. I agree photos tend to disappear when posted if moved to a folder on photobucket at a later time. Attached Images

4th February 2015, 08:15 AM	#14
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,178	they're showing for me, two of them anyway. Attached Images

3rd February 2015, 08:37 AM	#2
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 391	Described in Lyles 19890 Arms and Armour Review as a French circ 1830 unusual sidearm. 100gbp back then.

3rd February 2015, 02:58 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	It seems as it will no be easy to identify this example. The blade is surely French; a classic type used in 1816 and 1830/1 models. Look for inspector marks (poinçons) on the ricasso under the 'lion' paw shield. By the way, have you cosidered that the paw in the guard may not be from a lion ... a griffon or other beast instead ? Just guessing ...

3rd February 2015, 03:21 PM	#5
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 391	How do you directly upload photos, they are jpg's?

3rd February 2015, 03:34 PM	#6
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 391	Fernando I may have assumed without looking too carefully. The paw only has fur at the top across the edge. Unless the maker had never seen a lion this is not a lions paw.

3rd February 2015, 05:50 PM	#8
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 391	where is manage attachment? Sorry my posts don't seem to appear for some time

3rd February 2015, 08:17 PM	#11
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 391	I didn't scroll down to see it on my screen. The reply to thread is in a box, did not realize there was more below due to the box. Different way of adding photos in comparison to other forums.

4th February 2015, 08:09 AM	#13
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,089	Really an interesting sword! Not much to add over what the others have already said. Definitely French, not only for the blade, but for the lion pommel (seen on certain types of french swords) and spiral quillons. As I've never seen this pattern before, wondering if it's custom made for an officer? However, I don't underestimate the multiple divisions of troops and their accutrements. Used to have a cuirass of French origin that wasn't identified for over a decade despite the sunburst badge to the front (ended up being a M1863 Carabinier's- ). Point being, perhaps a rarer pattern for a special unit? mark

4th February 2015, 05:36 PM	#16
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 391	Here is the reverse side of the hilt. Attached Images