Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12th December 2014, 08:56 PM   #1
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,806
Thumbs up Melanesian sword club

Probably the last addition to the collection 2014. I look forward to posting better pictures when it arrives. Seasons greetings and a happy new year with good luck for finds in 2015.
Attached Images
 
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th December 2014, 05:53 PM   #2
VANDOO
(deceased)
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: OKLAHOMA, USA
Posts: 3,138
Thumbs up

IT LOOKS LIKE A GOOD EXAMPLE OF THE LONG THIN FORM DOES IT HAVE ANY CARVED DESIGNS? 2014 SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN A GOOD YEAR FOR COLLECTING FOR MANY OF US , MAY 2015 BE EVEN BETTER FOR US ALL.
VANDOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2015, 09:55 AM   #3
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,806
Default

Finally this has arrived. I can understand if your are not interested in clubs and especially the less decorative or iconic examples. It is hard to enthuse about what looks to be in essence a stick. However to me this is a very interesting sword club with a good age too. It is beautifully slender yet quite heavy. Put next to a Massim example a great difference can be seen. It is a little thicker than the Massim sword club. It could be used in a fast manner. I think of fantasy Oriental kungfu fighters delivering multiple blows in the blink of an eye. Easily heavy enough to render an opponent unable to retaliate. Enough of that, the style is quite unusual when one thinks of Massim/Papuan sword clubs. The origin is unknown to me. I tend to think of Melanesia but it could also be from South America. Any thoughts as to origin? please do not hold back.
Attached Images
     
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2015, 03:44 PM   #4
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,178
Default

sometimes less is more, less decorated ones, like with steel weapons, are frequently meant for serious business rather than showing off. the wood on your new companion looks great.

one of my end of year purchases: arnis sword/club bahi wood (coconut) 30 in. i liked the wood...
Attached Images
 
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2015, 05:33 PM   #5
colin henshaw
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,430
Default

Those "square-cut" protusions and the type of palmwood...to me signify South America rather than Melanesia. Somewhere in Micronesia could also be possible...
colin henshaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2015, 10:24 PM   #6
KuKulzA28
Member
 
KuKulzA28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: between work and sleep
Posts: 731
Default

I agree, square cut is reminiscent of South America but, to be honest I am very unsure.

There's definitely a few fans of clubs and sticks Tim, even if they aren't socially glorified like swords
KuKulzA28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2015, 02:19 PM   #7
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,806
Default

Thank you for the replies. Colin thanks again for your observations. You saw this big long club when you were last here and suggested South America as the origin. I always harbored a little doubt. Now though I see your insight was correct, you do that quite often, well done! What would be good is to find more information on exactly where and who in South America? Obviously the clubs come from the same region. Can anybody help with this or be able to show other example that display the same form of structure?
Attached Images
   
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2015, 05:09 PM   #8
colin henshaw
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,430
Default

Thanks Tim. The nearest examples I can find to your club, are as shown in these two illustrations from "The History of Mankind" by Ratzel 1897. Seemingly, the Umauas Indians lived in the Japura River region, which is to be found in the northwest of Brazil near to Colombia and Venezuela. Not a lot of help really, but if I find anything more, I will post it.
Attached Images
  
colin henshaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2015, 07:47 PM   #9
VANDOO
(deceased)
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: OKLAHOMA, USA
Posts: 3,138
Thumbs up

MY FEELING IS THE CLUB IS MORE LIKELY FROM THE AREA OF NEW GUINEA OR THE ISLANDS IN THAT GENERAL REGION. WHERE DID THE SELLER SHIP IT FROM AND WHAT WAS HIS DESCRIPTION? IF IT CAME FROM AUSTRALIA THAT WILL LIKELY BE CONFIRMATION THAT IT WAS FROM THAT REGION.
CLUBS AND OTHER WEAPONS OFTEN HAVE SIMILAR COUNTERPARTS IN OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD. SO IT MAKES IT DIFFICULT TO IDENTIFY THINGS ONLY FROM WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE AND WHAT THEY ARE MADE OF. UNFORTUNATELY GOOD PROVENANCE IS RARE OR QUESTIONABLE SO WE ARE LEFT WITH GUESSES BASED ON LOGIC AND COMPARISONS OR CONJECTURE. A NICE CLUB REGARDLESS.
VANDOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th January 2015, 07:26 AM   #10
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,806
Default

It was shipped from the USA and described as Nilotic.
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th January 2015, 08:54 AM   #11
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,178
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Simmons
It was shipped from the USA and described as Nilotic.
my best silver handled burmese dha was sold as an egyptian machete.
mini photo attached to show how wrong that was...

many secrets are hidden by the shifting sands of time and the annual floods...

p.s. - my initial impression of your club was more pacific oriented. the two 'guard' bands at the grip remind me of the cook island sword clubs, with yours being a narrower version.
Attached Images
  

Last edited by kronckew; 13th January 2015 at 09:17 AM.
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th January 2015, 05:21 PM   #12
VANDOO
(deceased)
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: OKLAHOMA, USA
Posts: 3,138
Thumbs up

A GOOD OBSERVATION THESE KNOBS REPRESENT EYES ON MARQUESAS AND COOK ISLAND CLUBS. THE EYES ARE OBVIOUS ON THE LARGE FANCY CLUBS BUT PERHAPS JUST REPRESENTED AS KNOBS ON SMALLER MORE COMMON OR PLAIN EXAMPLES. NO DOUBT THERE WERE MANY VARIATIONS ON THE VARIOUS ISLANDS AND THE QUALITY RANGED FROM THE CHIEF OR PRIESTS FANCY CLUBS TO THOSE USED BY THE YOUNG WARRIORS TRYING TO PROVE THEMSELVES.
COLLECTORS PAST AND PRESENT USUALLY GO FOR THE FANCY EXAMPLES SO THE MORE COMMON FORMS ARE OFTEN NOT SEEN OR DOCUMENTED IN MUSEUMS OR BOOKS.
NIOLITHIC SOUNDS MORE CULTURED THAN STONE AGE TODAY THE TERM IS USED A LOT TO DESCRIBE ITEMS FROM NEW GUINEA AND AUSTRALIA BUT COULD APPLY TO ANYWHERE DEPENDING ON THE AGE OF THE ITEM. IN TODAY'S WORLD SOME PEOPLE ARE STILL IN THE STONE AGE IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.
VANDOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2015, 05:08 PM   #13
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,806
Default

Enter club or sword weapon in the search box here and I think this slim sword club has more in common with South American {Paraguay Amazon} examples than Oceanic.

http://anthro.amnh.org/south
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.