KATZBALGER SECOND CHANCE

cornelistromp · 7th October 2014, 08:28 PM

original katzbalgers are extremely rare and are hardly offered for sale.

This Katzbalger I missed at the auction thomas del mar in December 2006, but last week I got a second chance at Christies London, due to the crisis on the antiques market for a fraction of the 2006 price.
beautiful water find in an untouched state around 1530.
Enjoy the pictures.

best,
jasper

cornelistromp · 7th October 2014, 08:30 PM

H.Aldegrever 1529 1530

Matchlock · 7th October 2014, 08:45 PM

Hi Jasper,

My congrats - you couldn't have done any better!
And thanks for showing these great images as well!

Nevertheless, I strongly recommend that you also consider purchasing a finely preserved sample coming your way in November - in as-new condition, and even retaining its original sheath including one of the bodkins.
It is the second best Katzbalger worldwide, after the famous specimen in the collections of the Vienna museum which once belonged to Ulrich von Schellenberg 500 years ago.

Best,
Michael

cornelistromp · 7th October 2014, 09:47 PM

Hi Michael,

of course however I have 9 now, can't have them all.

some examples of Katbalgers with a medial ridge/cam at pommel cap

best,

cornelistromp · 8th October 2014, 08:51 AM

katzbalger dutch army museum with Melchior Diefstetter (1523-1556) blade and chequered arms of Bavaria in a shield.

all though the blade comes from the same 16thC period, it does not belong originally to this Katzbalger hilt!

thanks Carl for those beautiful pictures.

best,
jasper

fernando · 9th October 2014, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

Hi Michael,

of course however I have 9 now ...

9 beauties, certainly

.

cornelistromp · 9th October 2014, 06:33 PM

Hi Fernando,

absolutely 9 beauties.
but they are not the katzbalgers I've posted!
Only the Katzbalger in post 1 and the first extremely beautiful non excavated Katzbalger in post 4 with etched grip are under my care.
the others excavated ones are from various museums in the Netherlands; rijksmuseum van oudheden leiden, Museum Rotterdam, army museum Delft / soesterberg ect.

This group as #1 is a very rare subgroup of the Katzbalger and comes up in the second quarter of the 16th century 1525-1540.
The common feature of this group is the comb or medial rich on the flat of the flaired "pommel" and recurved quillons, each formed of a writhen bar issuant from a serpent's head , actually like all katzbalgers in this thread have!

the other 7 are of a different style, I will post them one by one when I have completed the study of similar examples in museums, private collections and art.

best,
Jasper

cornelistromp · 16th October 2014, 01:34 PM

small note about the other beautiful Katzbalger from my collection, this one has an engraved decoration plate on the grip and grip rings, both of brass.
on the one side is St Barbara with her tower and martyr palm pictured on the other side, ST Paul with sword and book;
The book Carried by Saint Paul Represents his gospel in the New Testament of the Bible.
The sword is a reminder of the Means of his martyrdom - he was beheaded in Rome in 67 AD.

Saint Barbara became the patron saint of artillerymen. She is also traditionally the patron of armourers, military engineers, gunsmiths, miners and anyone else who worked with cannon and explosives. She is invoked against thunder and lightning and all accidents arising from explosions of gunpowder. She is venerated by Catholics who face the danger of sudden and violent death in work.

There is a Katzbalger with some similarities in the KHM in Vienna.
Well it was a Katzbalger because the 8-shaped parry rod has been shortened and the katzbalgerbell finals are reattached to the parry rods. This workmanship is very simple and not Original. This defenately was a beautiful katzbalger.

According to the description of KHM St Barbara is pictured at the brass plate, but if you look closely you see that it is not Stbarbara but that St Paul is depicted.

perhaps on the other side stands St barabara, I have to find out.
This landsknecht sword is dated 1409 and has several brass rings on the grip. the blade does not have a ricasso.

cornelistromp · 16th October 2014, 01:43 PM

the KHM landsknecht sword, made out of a katzbalger, KHM A147

cornelistromp · 17th October 2014, 08:45 AM

compare the above katzbalger of the KHM in Vienna with a Katzbalger from the London museum, a katzbalger of the garde of karel V.

This London Katzbalger is exactly, I mean EXACTLY, of the same type as the one in KHM Vienna, perhaps made by the same sword maker/workshop.

so this is how the Katzbalger in KHM Vienna originally must have looked.
The dating of the london museum also can be adjusted from 1520 to 1510!, because the Katzbalger of KHM Vienna is dated 1509.

fernando · 17th October 2014, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

... small note about the other beautiful Katzbalger from my collection, this one has an engraved decoration plate on the grip and grip rings, both of brass.
on the one side is St Barbara with her tower and martyr palm pictured on the other side, ST Paul with sword and book;
The book Carried by Saint Paul Represents his gospel in the New Testament of the Bible.
The sword is a reminder of the Means of his martyrdom - he was beheaded in Rome in 67 AD.

I will not comment on this sword of yours as it is too nice and so requiring refined words to comment

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

... Saint Barbara became the patron saint of artillerymen... She is invoked against thunder and lightning ...

I can't resist to tell that, there is an old Portuguese saying, based on monasteric humoristic origins, in that people only invokes this Saint when things go wrong, which is: One only remembers Santa Barbara when it thunders

.

AHorsa · 17th October 2014, 09:22 PM

Congratulations to your new piece Cornelius! Although the condition is not "mint" it has a great historical charisma, especially concidering the deep nicks which suggest involvement in hard battles. In my eyes pieces like this have more aura than unused top preserved ones.

Cheers
Andreas

cornelistromp · 19th October 2014, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AHorsa

Congratulations to your new piece Cornelius! Although the condition is not "mint" it has a great historical charisma, especially concidering the deep nicks which suggest involvement in hard battles. In my eyes pieces like this have more aura than unused top preserved ones.

Cheers
Andreas

Hi Andreas,

I completely agree here, also a sword can be better preserved in most cases by nature than by people.
The condition deteriorates a bit, but more important it is in +-500 years not touched, disassembled, cleaned and restored.

attached a landsknecht in colour with a similar katzbalger.
very best wishes
jasper

cornelistromp · 25th October 2014, 06:08 PM

kunstmuseum basel, similar type of katzbalger Urs Graf 1508

bkp747 · 27th October 2014, 07:28 PM

Beautiful pictures, thanks so much. Fantastic swords! I love katzbalgers, and can't get enough.

7th October 2014, 08:30 PM	#2
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,058	H.Aldegrever 1529 1530 Attached Images Last edited by cornelistromp; 8th October 2014 at 04:12 PM.

7th October 2014, 09:47 PM	#4
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,058	Hi Michael, of course however I have 9 now, can't have them all. some examples of Katbalgers with a medial ridge/cam at pommel cap best, Attached Images Last edited by cornelistromp; 8th October 2014 at 08:27 AM.

8th October 2014, 08:51 AM	#5
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,058	katzbalger dutch army museum with Melchior Diefstetter (1523-1556) blade and chequered arms of Bavaria in a shield. all though the blade comes from the same 16thC period, it does not belong originally to this Katzbalger hilt! thanks Carl for those beautiful pictures. best, jasper Attached Images Last edited by cornelistromp; 8th October 2014 at 08:48 PM.

9th October 2014, 06:33 PM	#7
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,058	Hi Fernando, absolutely 9 beauties. but they are not the katzbalgers I've posted! Only the Katzbalger in post 1 and the first extremely beautiful non excavated Katzbalger in post 4 with etched grip are under my care. the others excavated ones are from various museums in the Netherlands; rijksmuseum van oudheden leiden, Museum Rotterdam, army museum Delft / soesterberg ect. This group as #1 is a very rare subgroup of the Katzbalger and comes up in the second quarter of the 16th century 1525-1540. The common feature of this group is the comb or medial rich on the flat of the flaired "pommel" and recurved quillons, each formed of a writhen bar issuant from a serpent's head , actually like all katzbalgers in this thread have! the other 7 are of a different style, I will post them one by one when I have completed the study of similar examples in museums, private collections and art. best, Jasper Attached Images Last edited by cornelistromp; 10th October 2014 at 08:36 AM.

16th October 2014, 01:34 PM	#8
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,058	small note about the other beautiful Katzbalger from my collection, this one has an engraved decoration plate on the grip and grip rings, both of brass. on the one side is St Barbara with her tower and martyr palm pictured on the other side, ST Paul with sword and book; The book Carried by Saint Paul Represents his gospel in the New Testament of the Bible. The sword is a reminder of the Means of his martyrdom - he was beheaded in Rome in 67 AD. Saint Barbara became the patron saint of artillerymen. She is also traditionally the patron of armourers, military engineers, gunsmiths, miners and anyone else who worked with cannon and explosives. She is invoked against thunder and lightning and all accidents arising from explosions of gunpowder. She is venerated by Catholics who face the danger of sudden and violent death in work. There is a Katzbalger with some similarities in the KHM in Vienna. Well it was a Katzbalger because the 8-shaped parry rod has been shortened and the katzbalgerbell finals are reattached to the parry rods. This workmanship is very simple and not Original. This defenately was a beautiful katzbalger. According to the description of KHM St Barbara is pictured at the brass plate, but if you look closely you see that it is not Stbarbara but that St Paul is depicted. perhaps on the other side stands St barabara, I have to find out. This landsknecht sword is dated 1409 and has several brass rings on the grip. the blade does not have a ricasso. Attached Images Last edited by cornelistromp; 16th October 2014 at 02:05 PM.

7th October 2014, 08:28 PM	#1
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,058	KATZBALGER SECOND CHANCE original katzbalgers are extremely rare and are hardly offered for sale. This Katzbalger I missed at the auction thomas del mar in December 2006, but last week I got a second chance at Christies London, due to the crisis on the antiques market for a fraction of the 2006 price. beautiful water find in an untouched state around 1530. Enjoy the pictures. best, jasper Attached Images

7th October 2014, 08:45 PM	#3
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Jasper, My congrats - you couldn't have done any better! And thanks for showing these great images as well! Nevertheless, I strongly recommend that you also consider purchasing a finely preserved sample coming your way in November - in as-new condition, and even retaining its original sheath including one of the bodkins. It is the second best Katzbalger worldwide, after the famous specimen in the collections of the Vienna museum which once belonged to Ulrich von Schellenberg 500 years ago. Best, Michael

16th October 2014, 01:43 PM	#9
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,058	the KHM landsknecht sword, made out of a katzbalger, KHM A147 Attached Images Last edited by cornelistromp; 16th October 2014 at 01:58 PM.

17th October 2014, 08:45 AM	#10
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,058	compare the above katzbalger of the KHM in Vienna with a Katzbalger from the London museum, a katzbalger of the garde of karel V. This London Katzbalger is exactly, I mean EXACTLY, of the same type as the one in KHM Vienna, perhaps made by the same sword maker/workshop. so this is how the Katzbalger in KHM Vienna originally must have looked. The dating of the london museum also can be adjusted from 1520 to 1510!, because the Katzbalger of KHM Vienna is dated 1509. Attached Images Last edited by cornelistromp; 17th October 2014 at 04:32 PM.

17th October 2014, 09:22 PM	#12
AHorsa Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Rhineland Posts: 367	Congratulations to your new piece Cornelius! Although the condition is not "mint" it has a great historical charisma, especially concidering the deep nicks which suggest involvement in hard battles. In my eyes pieces like this have more aura than unused top preserved ones. Cheers Andreas

25th October 2014, 06:08 PM	#14
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,058	kunstmuseum basel, similar type of katzbalger Urs Graf 1508 Attached Images

27th October 2014, 07:28 PM	#15
bkp747 Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 15	Beautiful pictures, thanks so much. Fantastic swords! I love katzbalgers, and can't get enough.