Unusual items from Timor

colin henshaw · 21st February 2014, 12:50 PM

Hi

I hope the moderators will allow this post of non-weapon items. I wonder if any of our South-East Asian experts can please throw some light on these bamboo containers and their strange contents, described as being from Timor. The old labels list the contents and show a date of 1926.

I was wondering if they could be shaman's paraphernalia ??

Anyway, any assistance would be great, with thanks in advance...

Sajen · 21st February 2014, 02:52 PM

The first bamboo container seems indeed a box from a shaman, the other content could be cigarettes.

Nice boxes, old ones become very rare.

Regards,

Detlef

David · 21st February 2014, 04:05 PM

I'm not convinced that the first box necessarily belonged to a shaman. At least not one native to Timor. Most, if not all of the items in this box are not native to Timor. Quondong is a fruit specific to the arid regions of Australia. Both the fruit and the pits (stones) are edible and useful.
http://www.nullarbornet.com.au/themes/quandongs.html
The Wedge-Tailed Eagle is also primarily from Australia, though if has been know to range to southern New Guinea. Of course, Timor isn't really any further than New Guinea from Australia, but i don't see much record of sightings there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedge-tailed_Eagle
The Emu claws would also be specific to Australia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emu
The list says the rubber is from Java, the only item not Australian, but certainly easy enough to obtain in Australia.
It seems more likely that an Australian who collected these boxes from Timor used at least one of them to store other curio items they collected more locally. I suppose it is possible that the old cigarettes came with the other box from Timor as that list suggests.
The things in the first box are of the kind that i would have collected and stored in such a box if i were an adventurous boy in the Australian outback. I don't see anything there that necessarily speaks of shamanism.

asomotif · 21st February 2014, 10:24 PM

Hello Colin,

This is very cool, bamboo containers that where already treasured 88 years ago.

I must say that David is making a very good point, which made me read the lists one more.

One list tells us that it is a container used to carry cigarettes.
This seems correct to me. A lot of old containers in collections are described as being used to carry tobacco. so why not cigarettes.

The other list indeed mentions a container, and than clearly separate the contents.

So it is not a shamans container with contents.

But still very cool :-)

Best regards,
Willem

erikscollectables · 22nd February 2014, 09:31 AM

The writing on the labels seems to be done by a "modern" pen and not a fountain pen. These modern type of pens only came into broader use during the 1940s so I think the labels have been made more recently (I used to collect pens)

Regards, Erik

VANDOO · 22nd February 2014, 06:20 PM

WHY NOT THE PEN IS MIGHTER THAN THE SWORD, IF THE GUY WITH THE SWORD DON'T KNOW WHERE TO FIND YOU THAT IS.

TOBACCO WAS AND IN SOME PLACES STILL IS A VALUABLE TRADE GOOD, SO SMOKEING OR CHEWING SUPPLYS WERE WELL PROTECTED. A BAMBOO CONTAINER WOULD DO THE JOB WELL IN THE TROPICS. I AGREE ON THE OTHER CONTAINER AND ITS CONTENTS NOT LIKELY SHAMANS KIT BUT PERHAPS TROPHYS OR THE MAKEINGS FOR A NECKLACE OR SOMETHING AND MOST LIKELY FROM AUSTRALIA.

Battara · 22nd February 2014, 07:46 PM

Since this thread is not directly weapons related, I will close this interesting thread for now.

Robert · 29th May 2014, 03:17 PM

Now that we have the proper forum this thread is now open for further discussion.

Best Regards,
Robert

colin henshaw · 31st May 2014, 08:43 PM

A good idea to create a separate forum section for such items.

Thanks to those who contributed on these two containers, very useful...

Regards.

21st February 2014, 12:50 PM	#1
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Unusual items from Timor Hi I hope the moderators will allow this post of non-weapon items. I wonder if any of our South-East Asian experts can please throw some light on these bamboo containers and their strange contents, described as being from Timor. The old labels list the contents and show a date of 1926. I was wondering if they could be shaman's paraphernalia ?? Anyway, any assistance would be great, with thanks in advance... Attached Images

21st February 2014, 02:52 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,779	The first bamboo container seems indeed a box from a shaman, the other content could be cigarettes. Nice boxes, old ones become very rare. Regards, Detlef

21st February 2014, 04:05 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	I'm not convinced that the first box necessarily belonged to a shaman. At least not one native to Timor. Most, if not all of the items in this box are not native to Timor. Quondong is a fruit specific to the arid regions of Australia. Both the fruit and the pits (stones) are edible and useful. http://www.nullarbornet.com.au/themes/quandongs.html The Wedge-Tailed Eagle is also primarily from Australia, though if has been know to range to southern New Guinea. Of course, Timor isn't really any further than New Guinea from Australia, but i don't see much record of sightings there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedge-tailed_Eagle The Emu claws would also be specific to Australia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emu The list says the rubber is from Java, the only item not Australian, but certainly easy enough to obtain in Australia. It seems more likely that an Australian who collected these boxes from Timor used at least one of them to store other curio items they collected more locally. I suppose it is possible that the old cigarettes came with the other box from Timor as that list suggests. The things in the first box are of the kind that i would have collected and stored in such a box if i were an adventurous boy in the Australian outback. I don't see anything there that necessarily speaks of shamanism.

21st February 2014, 10:24 PM	#4
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	Hello Colin, This is very cool, bamboo containers that where already treasured 88 years ago. I must say that David is making a very good point, which made me read the lists one more. One list tells us that it is a container used to carry cigarettes. This seems correct to me. A lot of old containers in collections are described as being used to carry tobacco. so why not cigarettes. The other list indeed mentions a container, and than clearly separate the contents. So it is not a shamans container with contents. But still very cool :-) Best regards, Willem

22nd February 2014, 09:31 AM	#5
erikscollectables Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 318	The writing on the labels seems to be done by a "modern" pen and not a fountain pen. These modern type of pens only came into broader use during the 1940s so I think the labels have been made more recently (I used to collect pens) Regards, Erik

22nd February 2014, 06:20 PM	#6
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	WHY NOT THE PEN IS MIGHTER THAN THE SWORD, IF THE GUY WITH THE SWORD DON'T KNOW WHERE TO FIND YOU THAT IS. TOBACCO WAS AND IN SOME PLACES STILL IS A VALUABLE TRADE GOOD, SO SMOKEING OR CHEWING SUPPLYS WERE WELL PROTECTED. A BAMBOO CONTAINER WOULD DO THE JOB WELL IN THE TROPICS. I AGREE ON THE OTHER CONTAINER AND ITS CONTENTS NOT LIKELY SHAMANS KIT BUT PERHAPS TROPHYS OR THE MAKEINGS FOR A NECKLACE OR SOMETHING AND MOST LIKELY FROM AUSTRALIA.

22nd February 2014, 07:46 PM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Since this thread is not directly weapons related, I will close this interesting thread for now.

29th May 2014, 03:17 PM	#8
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Now that we have the proper forum this thread is now open for further discussion. Best Regards, Robert

31st May 2014, 08:43 PM	#9
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	A good idea to create a separate forum section for such items. Thanks to those who contributed on these two containers, very useful... Regards.