Rare Blunderbuss with folding bayonet

[Marcus den toom]

A few days before christmass i contacted the seller of this rare blunderbuss, it will arrive next Monday (because of all the holiday madness, humbug )
Anyway, i saw the thing and immediately was intrigued by it. Usually you see these blunderbusses fitted with a bayonet on top of the barrel. some of them have a bayonet underneath the barrel. This one and only this one, as far as my research shows, has the bayonet on the right side of the barrel. It is "locked" into place by the dog/hammer. The seller said the bayonet was 6mm to short for it to be locked into place, but i noticed that the dog has a sickle shape which has broken off at some point in its life. When the dog is cocked, it will hold the bayonet in place. When fired, the bayonet will swing forward (a rather dangerous contraption i think).

The woodwork and brass is very well made, much attention for detail and also the correct stylistical features. This blunderbuss was made by (William) Ketland&co in the late 18th century (1790's), the counter plate for the lock is of typical Ketland design.
The barrel has British proofs, but is also heavily corroded as is the first part of the bayonet.

I am still figuring out for myself if i should do something about the corroded metal (maybe try and hammer it more flat) but i am not fond of messing with these unique things. I will try to find a good restorer though for the dog, it should be repaired (it has a small crack and the sickle shape should be replaced).

A whole lot of words, but the truth is.. i have no clue about blunderbusses, it looked rare but i noticed some forum members with a whole lot more experience with blunderbusses so please, enlighten me

[Marcus den toom]

some more details

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Marcus den toom

... When the dog is cocked, it will hold the bayonet in place. When fired, the bayonet will swing forward ...

So that after (single) shooting you have a back up ? rather ingenious !
Does it still work ?

[Marcus den toom]

Hi Fernando,
The mechanism does still function, but the sickle shape at the end of the dog/hammer is broken of, so when this is fixed it will hold the bayonet again.
The mode of operation would have been as follow. You fold the bayonet backwards towards the lock. The lock is put into half cock, this will move the sickle (or C) shaped end of the dog over the end of the bayonet. The blunderbuss is loaded, the pan is loaded. The lock is pput into full, the bayonet is still retained. The trigger is pulled, the dog snaps forward releasing a spark and also the bayonet (the sickle will move to its first position, and the bayonet will no longer be retained).

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Marcus den toom

...This one and only this one, as far as my research shows, has the bayonet on the right side of the barrel...

Just for your info ...
There are more, although not necessarily with the same brilliant type of mechanism.
In catalogue #7 of Andrew Bottomley there was a pistol by James Forest (1830) with a spring bayonet, activated by a catch on the right side of the frame.

[Matchlock]

Hi Marcus,


Though this is not really old enough to be of greater interest to me , I can tell that the slightly convex shape of the buttstock denotes a time of production around the 1770's.
The pitting seems due to salty sea climate, which did not as much harm to the case-hardened surface of the lock as it did to the 'soft'-iron barrel.


Best,
Michael

[Marcus den toom]

Hi Michael,

I am indeed suprised in a good way to find you in this topic
When the blunderbuss will arrive at my home, i will investigate the name Ketland on it. It might be William or Thomas Ketland instead of Ketland & co (it would make more sense if the butstock is of 1770's design).
I wondered, the pancover has a roller... i always believed they only came into fashion from around 1800's ?

Fernando, do you have a picture of this other specimen? I couldn't find it

[Marcus den toom]

Also, does anyone know a good restorer? The dog needs to be repaired

[Matchlock]

Originally Posted by Marcus den toom

Hi Michael,

I am indeed suprised in a good way to find you in this topic
When the blunderbuss will arrive at my home, i will investigate the name Ketland on it. It might be William or Thomas Ketland instead of Ketland & co (it would make more sense if the butstock is of 1770's design).
I wondered, the pancover has a roller... i always believed they only came into fashion from around 1800's ?

That frizzen roller first appeared in the 1780's, so let's say '1780's' for your blunderbuss. By the early 1800's, the dog has taken on the inverted C-shape.

m

[fernando]

Here you are. Not so good but ... will have to do

.

[Fernando K]

Hello:

The P and V crowned, is the brand Testbed Birmingham before 1813.

Affectionately. Fernando K

[Fernando K]

Hello:

On page 57 of D. R. Baxter "Blunderbusses" is photographed a blunderbuss with bayonet aside, and the same restraints. Posted by PERRY, punches and English test.

Fernando K

[M ELEY]

The spring-loaded bayonet was actually patented by Waters in the 1780's. Many of the brass barreled blunderbus pistols used by naval officers have this mechanism, as do the larger ones, like your example. I have the former type, with a mechanism whereby the bayonet springs and locks in place when you pull back on the trigger guard. Many other Birmingham makers used similar mechanisms, but Mr. Waters was the first. My flintlock naval pistol dates to 1790's based on marks. Yours is a nice piece and could have been a coach gun (used to disuade highwaymen!). The brass barrel types were used as coachguns and at sea (brass resisting rust from salt corrosion).

If you happen to be watching the 'Pirates of the Caribbean' series and see the scene where Jack Sparrow is surrounded by men with guns and the little short fellow draws a pistol and let's fly with the spring bayonet, that's the naval pistol I speak of (It was a real antique piece used in the movie, a Waters example).

[Marcus den toom]

Hi all,

Thank you for your comments and information
The scene from pirates of the caribean is known to me, but i thoughed they only used replica arms in the movie... some of them pretty bad ones (except for the flintlock carbine used by Jack to shoot a few kegs of powder )

Fernando K, could you make a picture of the blunderbuss with text please?

[Fernando K]

Dear Marcus:

I have no scanner, I'm a bad photograph .....

Affectionately. Fernando K

[Matchlock]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Hi Marcus,
The pitting seems due to salty sea climate, which did not as much harm to the case-hardened surface of the lock as it did to the 'soft'-iron barrel.

That's why blunderbusses for sea service mostly featured brass barrels ...

m

[Fernando K]

Hello:

Here I upload the photos (bad) Trip of a blunderbuss, with brass barrel, Birmingham hallmarks, after 1813. In the plate (plate) of the key (lock) TWIGG name is registered (I think it's fake) with folding bayonet, but the top of the barrel.

Afectuosmente. Fernando K

[Fernando K]

Hello:

Moore pics:

Fernando K

[Marcus den toom]

Hi Fernando K,

Thank you very much for the blunderbuss pictures. They are good enough to see the mechanism.

You are absolutly right Michael, if it wheren't for the high cost they would have made there cannons of brass more often as well (some swiffel guns where made of brass).

edit: the blunderbuss from Twigg looks real enough to me. There are 4 twigg's and one Twigg & Bass in Der Neue Stockel on page 1307 (book2). The blunderbuss in the pictures are most likely of John Twigg (1732-1790) i think in Piccadili,London Great brittain where he worked from 1776-1788.

[Fernando K]

Marcus:

The barrel (barrel) has the hallmarks of Birmingham, 1813 onwards. If they stopped working TWIGG (or died) in 1788, spent 25 years (or more) to use a key (lock) .... Precisely, this is a very common procedure, falsifying the origin to give more category. For example, here in Argentina are military weapons, produced in Belgium, with fake punches and English word TOWER, and even crowned GR (But with the punch ELG)

Affectionately. Fernando K

[Marcus den toom]

Hi Fernando K,

There is also an Edward Twigg from 1838-45 working in Birmingham at 34 Whittall street.

[Fernando K]

Marcus:

Mmmmmm ................... 1834 was already well established percussion system ............

Affectionately. Fernando K

[thinreadline]

Marcus , for best quality restoration work I would recommend Peter Dyson in England (www.peterdyson.co.uk)

[Marcus den toom]

Hi Thinreadline,

Thank you very much, i know of a restorer in the Netherlands where i live, but he didn't a very good job so i was in need for a better one